Peace Frog says there are only 1500 Mossad members. PF fails to mention that virtually ALL jews will become instant sayanim should 1500 Mossad need help. PF fails to mention that Israel buys people like our Congress, thus amplifying the reach and power of those poor, ‘lil Mossadniks.
PF fails to realize the jews “stick together”. PF fails to mention hiring of apparatchiks like alQaeda, ISIS, etc. PF believes the absurd figure of 3 billion dollars of “aid” to Israel military when it’s closer to 20 billion according to government insiders.
Haven’t the Rothschilds proven that jews are the mightiest force on the planet? I know Pat thinks this is scurrilous exaggeration, but let’s see some figures and not just superheated air that denies the power of the jew.
It sounds like a slam dunk observation until you get to the end. I don’t understand why you would take a solid position that you built up after impressive research and convincing critical thinking and drop it like a hot potato into a highly debatable position at the last second.
Why is it so outlandish to think the Israeli Secret Intelligence Services (ISIS) and their sundry branches (Mossad) had something to do with 9-11? Have you forgotten the dancing Israelis who were back in Israel weeks after the attacks and telling their ‘story’ on an Israeli talk show?
There were seven buildings with WTC in their names. All of them were destroyed that morning. No airplanes struck any of them. WTC1 and WTC2 were transformed into dust and blew away. WTC6 looked like a 12 foot wide post hole digger was used to systematically remove the middle of the building, all the way down to the foundation–but where did the material go? Building seven, NYC’s crisis command center, looks like it was destroyed in a controlled demolition. Three, four and five have their strangeness, too.
People who think they are are serious about 9/11, and do not focus on all seven buildings, are not truly serious about the subject.
Why would Israel want all seven buildings destroyed?
Who, in fact, wanted all seven buildings destroyed?
Anyone can hire dancers. Anyone can hire actors to go on television and say anything. What does the performance of actors prove?
WTC1, WTC2, and WTC6 were destroyed, probably, by very small nukes. I say “probably” because lophatt has many times argued the point persuasively, but I would not be surprised if Judy Wood is correct and it was Tesla technology, weaponized. I don’t know. Either way, if Israel utilized such technologies, to destroy SEVEN buildings in an American city, they must have had a reason. What is it? Again: why all seven?
Likewise, no plane hit the Pentagon. No missile, either. Did Israel plant the explosives in that building that produced the damage we witnessed? Did Israel orchestrate the bizarre sequence of events Jack White documented on the lawn, by analyzing the photographic evidence?
Did Israel shoot down the plane over Pennsylvania, and cover up the crime?
Irrational Jew hatred mystifies me. Irrational Israel hatred almost as much.
Some times it seems as if Emmanuel Goldstein is really believed to be the enemy of Big Brother. God help us.
9/11 is the key to understanding the kick-off to the New World Order. To reduce it to “the Mossad” is evidence of a real lack of imagination. The world changed that day. The destruction of all WTC buildings was the declaration of that fact. People who think it is the Jews that made that declaration are sadly lacking in insight about the enemy humanity is facing in our time. It is as if they believe a cartoon.
The world is being remade before our eyes. A fake meme of “white supremacy” has been created, even as European countries are systematically filled with people of alien civilizations, crowding out the natives–and the natives who notice the artificiality, and complain about it, are called “racists,” as if it is all perfectly natural and, THEY are weird for not getting with the plan. Completely, obviously, fake white-on-black murders in America are presented to goad black Americans into hating white people, and anyone who points it out is called a “racist.” The press is 100% with that lie.
This is all a part of a plan.
People who think the Jews are a sort of diabolical Fu Manchu, at the controls of the destiny of the world, tire me. Our enemy is not the Jews (although, plenty of Jews are involved). It is Principalities and Powers in High Places who are behind it. Heard that anywhere? They are not human beings.
It is 6:09 as I hit Post Comment, assured that this missive will plunge into the deep sleep of Moderation. Hopefully, James will check the moderation queue and release it in time for the late night crowd to tear at me like piranhas. I’ll check my carcass in the morning.
Bravo, Patrick! Well said. It is also incredible – and no one but Dr. Wood has addressed this issue, I believe – that the buildings surrounding the World Trade Center site or the “bathtub” were seriously damaged by the incredible destruction that rained down in the area.
I am sorry, I hit the key too soon – I meant to say that it was incredible that the buildings surrounding the World Trade Center site were not seriously damaged.
First, Pat, I believe that the U.S. intelligence agencies, whose annual budget is larger than the entire Israeli annual budget, knew of and were the main conspirators on 911. The Mossad has less than 1500 employees, and certainly, none of its actions on 911 could have fallen under the radar of the U.S. intelligence cabal. That being said, here are some of your questions/observations and my thoughts on the matter:
“Why would Israel want all seven buildings destroyed?”
Israel wants the U.S. to destroy its enemies in the Middle East. U. S. hegemony over the Middle East = an unrestrained and all powerful Israel in the region. This is now playing out with Israel’s fierce objections to lifting Iranian sanctions.
“Anyone can hire dancers. Anyone can hire actors to go on television and say anything. What does the performance of actors prove?”
Fails to explain why the Mossad agents, posing as students, had foreknowledge of the events (remember the dancing Israeli’s in Liberty State Park in Jersey City, N.J. on 911?). Why did they tell FBI Newark F.O. agents “we are friends” the Arabs are the common enemy? Do hired dancers/actors get, Joe Lieberman, a sitting Senator (and the V.P. Candidate for the Democratic Party in the 2000 Presidential Election), to lobby for their speedy return to Israel over FBI investigators’ objections?
I am no apologist for Israel, Peace. I know too much about it.
But none of your objections to my remarks addresses my actual questions. I gather you are a lawyer. Take the testimony (i.e. mine) seriously. Address the specific points I brought up.
How scooping out and removing the core of WTC6, while leaving the exterior walls standing, helped Israel “to destroy its enemies in the Middle East” is a mystery you will need to unravel for me. It’s beyond my ken. How destroying buildings 3, 4, and 5 helped to do that is beyond me as well. Please enlighten me.
As for the dancing actors, they are probably the Gene Rosens of the operation. All of the crazy ops have included intentionally planted rabbit trails for “conspiracy theorists” to waste valuable hours pursuing. That’s CIA 101. Conspiracy analysis 101 teaches how to detect them right away.
Is Israel involved in creating the New World Order? As the Dude said, “does the Pope shit in the woods?”
If you want to know what is going on, 9/11 is the key. If you think Israel is the key to finding that key, you are wasting your time–because it’s not. If you want to find that key, you have to get into the Deep Underground Military Bases, and ask the people who built and maintain them. If you can obtain a day pass for a visit to one of those facilities, and the top of the top grant you a tell-all interview, and they tell the truth, you won’t find out that it’s the jooooooz who are running the show. I can assure you of that.
OK, so you are reluctant to tag jews with various intrigues. Your scientific protocol appears to me, a scientist, as scanty at best. You are unfortunately one who makes a statement and fails to expose the thought process that produced such a blanket statement. Maybe you are just unaware that jews own nearly all of the media. Maybe you have inborn bias against these poor, little victims of those nasty Christians. Maybe you side with Israel against the Palestinians.
Boring. Just boring….
“Maybe you are just unaware that jews own nearly all of the media.”
Odd. I thought most of the media is publicly traded corporations, and that most stock is owned by pension funds and insurance companies.
“Maybe you have inborn bias against these poor, little victims of those nasty Christians.”
What?
“Maybe you side with Israel against the Palestinians.”
I think if the Arabs stopped murdering Israelis any time they get a chance, and agreed that Israel has a right to exist, they could have their own country in a heartbeat. But as long as they retain the goal of driving all the Jews into the sea, I side with the ones who’d be drowned, yes. Sue me.
The “Palestinians” assure the world that any political entity they are awarded will be 100% Jew-free, Gil. Did you know that one in six Israeli citizens is an Arab? That Arab Israeli Arabs possess precisely the same legal and social rights as Jewish Israelis? It’s easy to decide who to side with.
Whoa Patrick – easy there. I didn’t use the word Jews. I said the Mossad. In fact, it may be another branch of ‘secret service’ as yet an ‘unknown unknown’. I realize there was no plane at the Pentagon and I realize the (seven) buildings in NYC were taken down by controlled demolition – whether nuclear in nature, I don’t know. The powers that could get away with having the U.S. military stand down and/or take action when it was too late are those that also run the money. After all, ‘money makes the world go around, the world go around.” I’m sure you’ve heard that before. As for the diabolic, the spirit world MUST have its human agents.
You asked who would want all 7 WTC buildings destroyed.
You may have read this, but others may not have yet. Bernard Lewis makes the case, in 1992, in behalf of the Anglo-American establishment, for the future carve-up of the Mideast.
In addition, there was reporting that Guiliani’s bunker sat atop SEC records and Worldcom records. So destroying the Building 7 may have been the real intent and the rest was simply part of the ‘show’.
Also, it has been reported that WTC1 and WTC2 supposedly had asbestos and were ‘too expensive’ to clean up, so it could have been a ‘two-fer’.
Let us not forget that General Wesley Clarke is on record stating he was told by military brass that the U.S. was going to take down seven countries in five years. (still available on youtube.)
Do I expect to ever know the entire truth? No. But we can surmise quite a bit of why it happened. The ‘neo-cons’ (evidently and primarily either Zionists or Zionist sympathizers) made it clear another Pearl Harbor event would be needed to get the public behind more Mid-East invasions. The first ‘Gulf War’ was to soften up not just Iraq but the American public to the idea that Saddam was Saddam-Hitler and that we made a mistake by not taking him out completely during the first ‘war’.
I think that this story will get analyzed, more facts will be uncovered, and credible voices in alternative media venues will join in. The fact is, I believe the Howland story sounds like a honey pot scheme from what I know about how these things have been used in the past. It is a no-brainer that this guy was under watch because of his nexus too 911. It doesn’t take much for clever agents to play on his weakness, and use generally accepted KGB-style, subversion techniques to undermine him (e.g., if they want a woman to become a libertine, for whatever reason, introduce her to swinger/sex sites through subtle suggestion). We still need a little more on motive for a “slam dunk”, for instance, was he talking about 911 or raising questions to the wrong people or in the wrong forums? The idea is to open up a discussion, and hopefully convince a public that has been largely misled regarding these types of events. In order to get the public to believe what is happening in this country, they have to be spoon fed facts that the MSM is selectively ignoring or actively disparaging.
Ray Howland, an operational flight supervisor with American Airlines, was arrested on sex charges for attempting to meet a mother and child at a Pennsylvania hotel for sex.
Howland was a supervisor on duty on 9/11 and gave orders for the situation on board the flight not to be released publicly. His name appears several times in the 911 Commission Report. Transcripts of his communications that day are available on the web. He also had an active scholarship created in his name.
Allegedly, he placed an online advert soliciting a mother/daughter or sister/sister sexual encounter without mentioning anything about an underage girl.
There is a term used in law enforcement and, moreover, in intelligence circles, called a “honeypot trap”.
The alleged posing from an unnamed online forum reads:
“I’d love to find a mother/daughter pair (or more) of sisters, or a couple of young women interested in getting together for some fun tonight,” the post on an unidentified website said, according to WTAE.”
Patrick, you say Roberts is paranoid regarding the power of Israel, are you also saying the talk about the bankroll of the Rothschilds is a total lie, an exaggeration? Are you saying they are paupers, are you saying they have no power whatsoever?
I suggest you look up the names David Irving, Ernst Zundel, Sylvia Stolz, Germar Rudolf, Nick Kollerstrom. These folks have been incarcerated for suggesting the Holocaust is not the 100% God’s truth.
I respect your depth in a number of areas that you relate to. For 40 years, I’ve read just about everything I could grasp in my hot little fist regarding the formation of Israel, origin of jews, etc etc. You have chosen to re-define the meanings of words like “scarrily irrational”. Can you start elaborating on how you arrived at this conclusion? Does it mean if people differ from you they need a shrink?
Personally, I think you are way, way, way out of line and way beyond your capability to utter such a global statement. Still, you show courage in uttering such a bloviated rumination that I have to give you credit for extending your neck onto the guillotine. It takes guts to try and fool people at times, but sometimes things don’t work out. They didn’t this time.
That said, your body of work is deserving of merit and I’d be the first to proffer this in front of you.
“are you also saying the talk about the bankroll of the Rothschilds is a total lie, an exaggeration? Are you saying they are paupers, are you saying they have no power whatsoever?”
In this one (http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2015/04/13/power-lies/) he writes this: ” Even today Israeli Zionists point to Washington’s extermination of the Plains Indians as the model for Israel’s theft of Palestine”, a statement so astoundingly ridiculous only someone who has lost his reason could say it. Israel’s “theft” of “Palestine”? Only a nut, or someone with no historical knowledge of the subject could say something so stupid. The League of Nations game Britain a Mandate to create a homeland for the Jews in what it called “Palestine,” which included everything that is today Israel, the West Bank, and Jordan. In the end they only ended up with a fraction of it. So if anyone stole “Palestine”, it was Britain that stole if from the Jews.
But it’s worse than that. PCR felt compelled to drop that delusional statement into the midst of a completely unrelated topic, just because it’s a fever that is always heating his brain, apparently.
In this one (http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2015/04/12/hope-horizon-comes-greece-paul-craig-roberts/) he writes this: “The war on terror is a hoax. It is a creation of the evil neoconservatives who intend Washington’s world hegemony and Israel’s hegemony from the Nile to the Euphrates.” I laugh at such nonsense; Israel has been relentlessly SHRINKING. It owned Sinai, which almost took it to the Nile, and AND GAVE IT TO EGYPT in exchange for peace. In a suicidal fir of insanity, it gave Gaza to Hamas. In another display of suicidal depression, it gave another terrorist group, Hezbollah, the buffer zone in Southern Lebanon that protected the people of Northern Israel–again, in exchange for a peace that never came.
In this one (http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2015/04/07/iran-nuclear-energy-agreement-force-prevails-law-paul-craig-roberts/) he writes this: “…the crazed Israeli government and its neoconservative agents, who represent Israel’s interests, not America’s, have almost driven the US to war with Iran…” He wrote that evan though Obama has spent his whole presidency trying to end America’s friendship with Israel and make Iran the regional superpower. As I say, on the subject of Israel PCR is delusional.
In this one (http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2015/03/30/middle-east-holocaust-paul-craig-roberts/) he writes this: “Look at the Republicans in Congress and in state governments. They hate the environment. They love polluters. They worship Israel and Israel’s destruction of the Palestinians and the ongoing theft of the Palestinians’ country, a 60-year old activity. Just look at the map of shrinking Palestine. More is stolen each day.” I wonder, when he says things like this, if he’s sane.
This takes us back to late March, Gil. I promise you, if I kept working my way back through his posted articles this would be just the tip of the iceberg.
I never write things I can’t prove, unless I openly admit that I am speculating. Feel free to challenge me at any time.
Well Patrick I’m going to challenge you on your assertion about the irish and spanish in a recent post on another thread. The spanish probably didn’t all arrive in Ireland because of the Armada. First, to sail from Spain to Ireland is a cinch if you remain in the shallower waters close to the coast lines heading north; such a trip wasn’t challenging to make and suggests a longer period of communion between the two catholic countries. Second, there are streets in large cities in Spain that bear irish names, further proving that some relationship was ongoing and not discreet to a single event. I really don’t know but I think your Armada theory has holes, just like the actual boats.
Patrick
I guess such a comment of yours might help you to get a nice deal for publishing and disseminating some of your works to a wider audience? Or are these your genuine opinions?
Sinai? The Israeli leader until the 1967 war was totally against it so the plotters, including Dayan had to replace him. The insiders knew very well that there was no threat from the Arabs, they very successfully provoked the war to grab some more land. Including the fake radiotransmissions, which helped them provoke an attack from Jordan.
The Us didnt want this escalation since at that time they didnt have the total collusion with the saudis which later emerged so the Us warned the arabs and that was the cause of the attack on the USS Liberty. Of course Israels arrogance was based on knowing that the Us admin would continue to back the State of Israel no matter what.
I’ve never heard your theory before, Sue, but the one I espoused is fairly well known. I’ve studied Irish history fairly deeply, and never saw a single reference to regular Iberian sexual commerce with Ireland. As for the Irish pubs in Spain, did you know that Spain in recent decades has become the premier vacation/retirement destination for people hailing from the British Isles? They’ve re-created entire neighborhoods there, as they flee the ones at home that have been taken over by Moslems.
I like you, Peter, but sometimes I don’t understand you. Let’s look at what you said.
“I guess such a comment of yours might help you to get a nice deal for publishing and disseminating some of your works to a wider audience?”
From your typing fingers to God’s computer screen.
“Or are these your genuine opinions?”
Absolutely.
First off, it should be understood that I absolutely despise the government and the people who rule Israel, from the start to today. The whole lot is guilty of crimes against humanity of the highest category–and that includes the vast majority of Israel’s Jews. To understand how catastrophically evil it all is, one need only read Barry Chamish’s books.
So when I point out the irrationality of PCR’s unhinged remarks, it is not because I think Israel is some terrific thing. It’s just that I know the history, and hate that kind of bizarre emotionalism. Attack Shimon Peres for Murdering Yitzhak Rabin. Attack what they did to the “ringworm children.” Attack the monopolistic fascism of the system that keeps more than 90% of Israelis barely able to pay the monthly bills, even as billionaire overlords with their complete control of the country strut around like peacocks, pretending that Israel is an entrepreneurial hi-tech paradise. The list of horrors is long. It just does not include the ridiculous fever-dreams that haunt PCR.
The Six Day War. You want me to write a book here?
I guess you don’t believe that Israel gave the Sinai to Egypt (along with the luxury resorts they had developed for first-class tourists), in exchange for what turned out to be a very cold peace. I’m guessing you think it’s still a part of Israel. If that’s the case, you should look that one up, Peter. You’re in for a surprise.
“The Us didnt want this escalation since at that time they didnt have the total collusion with the saudis which later emerged so the Us warned the arabs and that was the cause of the attack on the USS Liberty.”
Uh, no.
Fresh off the successful Gulf of Tonkin hoax, that gave Lyndon Johnson his desired war, he thought that things like that are easy. So he ordered Israel to sink the USS Liberty–but with unmarked planes and torpedo boats. The idea was to blame the false flag on Egypt, bringing America into the war, which would end Nasser’s rule and the Egyptian client status with the Soviet Union. Israel was just obeying orders.
“Of course Israels arrogance was based on knowing that the Us admin would continue to back the State of Israel no matter what.”
Precisely the opposite.
Patrick forgive me for suspecting you might have had a nice book contract pending judging from what you said about Sinai. I was referring to the injustice in them having at all grabbed Sinai in the first place in the faux heroic war of 1967.
You dont think they landed on the moon and I am to take your word for it that Israel specifically focussed on destroying the radio equipment while the real motive was just to make a false flag?
John Loftus and Mark Aarons would be happy to expose Johnson like that and they are pro-Israel. But as far as I remember they say Israel wanted to prevent the Liberty from sending intel to the arabs. This is less damning for Israel than what I wrote in the previous comment but still logically compatible.
There was in those days not yet a strong cooperation with the Saudis which later led to the oil price surge blamed on the 1973 war and benefitting western big oil and investments by the Saudis in the west ie the opposite of what the public was led to believe. So there was some real concern at the earlier time 1967 about loosing control over the ME.
I am not an expert in these matters, Peter.
Here’s one thing I know. PCR claims Israel keeps “stealing” land, and growing. They might have “stole” Sinai. Fine with me. BUT THEY GAVE IT BACK. That’s akin to the United States giving back all the lands it won in the war with Mexico, but only years later, after California was already developed. This is unimaginable.
Israel, apparently, is that desperate for peace with its neighbors. If it grows, it is perfectly willing to shrink again, if the attacks will only stop.
I don’t think I’m missing anything here.
I applaud Paul Craig Roberts for his comments here about 9/11. However, the comments added at the end about Mossad may or may not have been approved by Roberts. Is there any evidence that he did indeed authorize those statements to be added to his own? (The change in voice is sudden, and unexplained.)
It is clearly written in English “Dr. Alan Sabrosky former Director of Studies, U.S. Army War College” during the part of the video in which a different voice is talking about a Mossad connection.
Yes, PeaceFrog, the author of that comment is identified on the video. But it was not clear to me when watching the video whether Roberts authorized that comment to be appended to his own statement. Roberts did not introduce it, or add his own agreement with those words. Our world is full of photoshopped documents, and doctored audio. Without an explicit statement from Roberts how can we know that he fully endorses Sabrosky’s opinion on the matter?.
As someone who reads everything PCR writes, he has an almost scarily irrational opinion about the imagined power and nefariousness of Israel. So I doubt he’d complain.
Thank you, Patrick, for your opinion, which I value. However, I just did what I should have done from the beginning and looked at Roberts’ own website – paulcraigroberts.org. (I had searched his recent papers on unz review before commenting initially and found nothing about this topic.) I searched for “Sabrosky” on Roberts’ website and found nothing, then I looked through his posts for the month of June 2015 and did not find this video nor any other comments about 9/11. The reason that I have taken this so seriously is that it seems to me that whenever anyone criticizes the media’s “narrative” on any of the stories that scream to be hoaxes, immediately they are infiltrated by anti-semite language of some form or another, making it difficult for folks to pass the original posts on without themselves appearing to be anti-Semite. This video seemed to make that case clearly. Roberts’ argument is clear-cut in the video, then we have an opinion with no associated evidence by someone else that “dirties” Roberts’ argument by association. Disinformation is everywhere and it is getting harder and harder to disassociate oneself from it. Of course, if there is good evidence that Mossad was responsible, I would be happy to review it. I find 9/11 to be so perfectly planned and carried out that it is difficult to believe any of us mere mortals were capable of the act.
“Next thing you will tell me is we didn’t go to the moon, just like Leaky Pipe”… (my grandfather’s nickname – he was a master plumber). My father said that every time I said something that he deemed far fetched. I heard it so many times growing up but by the last time – I was in my mid 40s. So it took 30 some years to finally check out the story, when I had no reason to doubt it. I was shocked to see just how much evidence there was to support the story we did not go to the moon. How many otherwise smart people are there that flat out refuse to look for the truth on 911 ? The country is full of them, and that’s the problem. When I first looked into 911, I was hell bent for leather to prove the inside job theory was insane and there was nothing to the story. It was like standing at the bottom of a dam that just opened the flood gates. There was simply no resistance I could muster to counter act the force of the truth. It was an unstoppable wall of water you could only swim with, no matter how hard you wanted to resist it. Once you face the truth on the moon landings that never happened and 911 being orchestrated by our own government, there is simply no way to take any big news story on face value. That goes for Waco, Oklahoma City and Sandy Hook. They have have pulled off orchestrating the biggest lies in history. The Charleston Church Massacre is small potatoes in comparison.
Every nation with the capability tracked the Apollo missions with radar. So they at least went into lunar orbit. However, Russia recently asked for proof of the missions in an obvious publicity stunt, so I don’t know what to think of that yet.
No human could have passed through the Van Allen Belts in those aluminum-foil constructed craft and survived. No man has even orbited the moon. Russia knows full well that we did not accomplish this feat, and in their public statements and questions, is most likely threatening the US government with disclosure of proof that it is a lie, and the US doesn’t want that, because it will be the first card to be withdrawn that will cause the entire house of cards to collapse.
All governments cooperate with each other in these frauds, as long as there is perceived benefit in cooperating.
You can start here, and if you read all 14 chapters, you will see how ridiculous the entire “moon landing” hoax really is:
The argument about the radiation is wrong. What I remember right now is: They get some extra doseage during the approximately 57min passage, but it’s far below the limit for acute radiation sickness.
The worst part has a much shorter portion of that duration.
Most of the doseage comes from the 6 day journey way beyond the Allen Belts. And they use plastic rather than lead(as some might think necessary) for decreasing the secondary radiation caused by the cosmic rays. I dont remember but I think the plastic converts the energy more effectively for a given weight of the shield like a scintillator into harmless light .
this video is pretty far out, but once you cross the Rubicon, there is no turning back. Once you see through 911, all bets are off – even in retrospect – on what big lie can be told, sold and perpetuated. Replacing Paul in the Beatles, it’s no big leap when you see through the Moon Landings. Once the victors lay all war atrocities conveniently wrapped in a bow at the door step of the Nazis, the Allies never had to answer for theirs. No one ever talks about how the Nazis never firebombed civilian targets in American cities and how the Japanese targeted our military instead of downtown Honolulu.
Interesting video. I studied this once upon a time. I think there’s little doubt that “Faul” replaced Paul. The rest is a mish mash of speculation.
I actually think that Faul is largely responsible for them achieving such success. There is no other band like them. I’ve marveled over them for years.
When you look at Faul it is clear he is more at home on the piano than Paul. He is also more musically talented. Before the switch they were basically a rock and roll band with a good manager. After the switch they really began to explore creatively.
While the ruse is upsetting, the fact is that the band continued to improve. There is something mysterious about them that isn’t found with other bands.
The product they produced is far more than the sum of its parts. Anyone with their resources could throw the elements together but they wouldn’t come out with anything approaching their music.
I have many favorite bands. I like them for various reasons. None of them are like the Beatles. Actually, if the switch had not occurred, it would still be a mystery as to why what they did worked so well. It is very rich and multi-layered but words alone don’t do it justice.
Lophat
Isnt it a simpler explanation that someone was playing practical jokes and discreetly inserted himself where previously Paul was sitting without the surrounding guests paying close attention, so some old photos seem to prove that a change has taken place. Far simpler than to assume the talented musician would have been substituted with someone on par with him.
Dear Lo & Pete: I think 911 truth is like a gateway drug. Once you come to terms with absurdity of the official lie and the sheer scale of it, replacing Paul is pretty easy to accept. I think one of the more telling indicators is the way Faul reacted to direct questions about it. Freeze framed micro-expressions tell a tale you can’t see in real time. I think Lo is right, Faul is better than the original. I saw him play a concert in 2010 at Fenway Park. It was awesome. There was maybe a quarter of the concert dedicated to solo and Wings material. All the rest was Beatles. Faul gave us our $100 worth and then some. BTW… this concert had the most in your face Chemtrailing I have seen in 8 years of watching. The grid they built over Fenway was the tightest I have ever seen and it was non-stop. Once you understand the depth and breadth of 911 scull duggery… it’s like a primer for accepting that the moon landings were fake. One of the biggest reasons I don’t think we went was the 3 way TV appearance of the astronauts… they talked about the greatest feat in human history with all the excitement normally shown when discussing doing laundry and taking out the trash. It blew my mind watching it 40 years after the fact. It said more to me than the photo anomalies and technical hurtles NASA just said we need to overcome to fly to Mars, that we supposedly already overcame 46 years ago?????? Once you come to terms with how far the gov’t will go to decieve and manipulate us with 911 and the Moon Landings…
Sandy Hook, Waco, Oklahoma City and now Charleston Church shooting… is duck soup (obvious).
I agree with Derek, completely. But Peter, dude, if you are correct, I think you are on to a Nobel prize winning discovery. (Does it help to live where the Prize is awarded?) If you are right, Paul grew half a head taller in just a few days–when he has in his twenties! And he changed from left-handed to right-handed at the same time! This should be studied. Has this ever happened to a person before? Awesome.
Peter, there’s a bit more to it than appearances. While the original Paul was the most talented of the group musically, he wasn’t made of the same stuff (musically) as Faul.
While some get all all ga-ga over John, he was competent as a rocker, not “gifted”. If you want a comparison of rockers, go find an Elvis Costello video and watch him belt out a song.
Faul added fantastic melodic content and continued Paul’s original role of keeping John under control in public. As luck (or whatever) would have it, the replacement was a stunning success.
There was an Italian couple who were forensic experts who analyzed the photographic evidence fully expecting to find that Paul was Paul. They didn’t. There is much more out there than this video.
I have a couple of videotapes of Faul practicing with Wings prior to a world tour at his studio. He’s extremely good. He knows what he’s doing.
So, while some bemoan the deception, at least it resulted in a one-of-a-kind band and some great music. Those who believe that the original was more of a genius are wrong.
Derek, I think I agree with you. For me, at least, things are what they are. After years of looking at this, my conclusion is that there are far more lies than truths put out there for public consumption.
I have feelings about that. I just don’t let my feelings influence my judgements about what I’m looking at. I don’t look at it to make myself happy (or sad). The only thing I have “faith” in is my religion, that’s a choice. The rest depends on what I see.
As to whether truth seeking is a “gateway drug”, I think the uncomfortable part is that, sooner or later, those who are serious have to make a decision to give up on what they’ve been conditioned to believe. That appears to be more frightening for some than others.
As to your concert, yeah, he’s amazing. He’s gotten a lot of bad press. I think his music is original and arresting. Some find it “schmaltzy”, I don’t. His melodies and arrangements are up there with the best.
My comments about the Beatles remain the same. They were truly unique. Individually they were competent, together they were amazing.
Patrick
You agree completely with Derec. This means you dont think they landed on the moon. To me this weakens your credibility for judging the case with Pauls disappearance. I admit that if he died there would be a motive to save the band using a substitute, but did he die?
And why would it be so important to keep the secret now?
To prevent Fauls real relatives from inheriting anything?
Or to avoid being exposed for Pauls murder?
Seems like a surealistic plot.
But if it is beyond doubt that they are as different as you say I admit it’s not easy to explain away. There would have to be a series of fake photos and lies.
Peter, the music business in the last half of the 20th century became a vast psy-op. Although it’s not directly on the topic, if you read my MHB article (http://memoryholeblog.com/2015/04/29/what-happened-to-the-music/), and click through some of the links, you will see that lots of people have explored this in recent years.
It has a lot to do with the CIA/MI6, MK-Ultra, mind control and the creation of the New World Order. Drugs.
The Beatles could not have had the profound effect they did if the music was not so astounding as it was. But it was.
I Want to Hold Your Hand could not a social revolution make. Sexy Sadie could.
“I read the news today, oh boy, about a lucky man who made the grade….”
“…5,000 holes in Blackburn Lancashire…”
That–and the astounding music in between the two sides of the song, and at the end–is the stuff that haunts the heart, and instructs a young mind in how to look at life. The fact that such a song could be created at all, much less by the boys who wanted us to know “I love you ya, ya, ya” a few short years ago is worthy of examination.
And as Dr. Fetzer points out, it is very difficult to explain the justification for a wildly popular musical act abruptly ceasing to perform in public, becoming a purely studio, record-making operation. There had never been a pure studio band before. Even when Brian Wilson made Pet Sounds in the Studio with The Wrecking Crew, the Beach Boys continued to tour.
I have no idea what went on with Paul’s family. I focus on what is easy to ascertain, and what the implications are. The family was dealt with somehow.
It is indeed surrealistic. But such is life, when social engineers are at the throttle.
The series of fake photos and lies are well documented here. Not to become any more tedious than is my natural presence here, I won’t link to those sources again. Just look at my previous comments on the subject, and click.
As for my losing my credibility re/ my conclusions about Apollo, all I can say is that I have put in the hours. Long, long, hours. Not only is all the purported “evidence” a hilarious joke, it is physically impossible to do what was claimed, with the technology of the time–but NASA itself tells us they can’t do it right now, with the technology we currently have.
We are constantly being played for fools.
There is a book titled, “Other Losses” by James Bacque that may interest you.
The question people should be asking, IMO, is whether or not Paul Craig Roberts has an agenda, and if so, what is it? Ken at RedefiningGod.com sees PCR as controlled opposition, and has done some excellent work uncovering evidence in this regard and connecting the dots. I personally give a lot of credence to his observations and analyses. The enemy of my enemy is NOT necessarily my friend.
You can call anybody a shill if you want. You can make wild assumptions about a person and his/her work. You can skim the meanings of words, you can stretch hypotheses, you can credit yourself with wisdom far beyond mere mortals. But, just because you take hormones like Caitlynn Jenner, does this make you a woman? You say yes despite the fact each cell contains the same DNA that makes Jenner a man. So how do you call Jenner a Woman of the Year candidate despite these biological facts?
I’ve been over these illusions that espouse Roberts’ communistic leanings a scad of times, but I’ve also read dozens and dozens of his articles and I find NO taint as far as tarring and feathering him as a “collaborator or gatekeeper”, none whatsoever. I find Roberts a blatant Patriot, an America lover, an honest man, an immensely capable man. It’s peculiar when a person who carries neither a degree in a subject nor adequate self learning in the same subject tries to tar and feather a hugely accomplished individual. How do we know you are not a shill, a toady, a poltroon? Prove you are as patriotic as Roberts. As capable, as levelheaded.
I bet you can’t but you talk a moderately mediocre game and still demand some sort of respect because “people have rights, you know…..”
I’d like to leave a few tidbits for thought. The youtube vid “Cornel West say Obama and Blacks have been “Niggarized”” was published on June 22, 2015 by both Anna Fox and Featured Patriots:
On June 23 I posted the vid on this blog and pointed out West’s comments about forgiveness beginning @3:11. He states “Forgiveness is not an utterance, it’s a process…”
At minute 3:40 Sylvia Johnson relates the story about Felicia to Andi, saying “When I got to talk with her, her entire dress was just dripped in blood and she said “that’s my son’s blood…”
Which begs the question: When and where would Sylvia Johnson have spoken with Felicia Sander, with the latter having blood all over her dress? That would have to have been directly after the shooting – How could that conversation have even happened?
Also, why has “the survivor,” “Polly Shepard”, who was supposed to live to “tell the tale” not been interviewed??
Tammie…thanks for the 2nd video, within the first 20 seconds, it’s sounds like another fabricated and contrived second hand account. “Something’s going on” when you hear gun fire? I guess so. Within the first 2 minutes, it’s such a laughable attempt to establish the crime through a second hand story, I can barely watch it. This should be called “Cooperizing the lie”… the lady says a dead man’s daughter “teared up a little”???? after hearing her father was just savagely murdered in church? Then the pastor’s daughter immediately talks about being strong for other people????? I can’t imagine that ever happening. I am starting to get angry at the lameness of this script. We deserve better acting, don’t we?
The gallery has got to watch this second video, the story Anderson Cooper leads this woman through is just beyond belief. A mother lays in her son’s blood to play dead, then has a conversation with the killer, then hides with a six year old under a desk????!!!!!!!!! This video must go viral. Anyone that believes anything from CNN after this, you must have a lobotomy
Hearsay testimony like that of the “friend of witness” is notoriously unreliable, and generally inadmissible in court. The video below shows four purported friends of alleged victim Tywanza Sanders who do seemingly display some grief:
There is something interesting about this video. The victim, Tywanza, who allegedly approached the shooter, trying to reason with him, was last seen by the friends at an acting rehearsal for a play. The video ends with one friend recalling that Tywanza was so excited about the upcoming performance that he said that after the performance (See 2:23-2:33):
“I’m out, I’m ghost, I’m gone. Don’t call me, don’t text me, don’t Skype me. Forget my name, forget my life. He never said it like that before.”
Was the crisis acting performance what he was talking about? We know the victims families received over $3.2 million each. Strange last words to a friend in the context of this event which happened a few days later!
The third video is even more unbelievable than the second. This lady refers to the woman – by name – whom the gunmen spoke to and let go to tell the story in the second video. In the third video, the same woman is only refered to generically as a senior citizen, who was a grandmother who had one of her aunts – also killed. How many grandmothers have more than one living aunt? She referred to gunfire as the ringing of a loud noise… never heard gunfire described quite that way. This lady says people already planned to play dead?????? While people are being shot right and left, you make plans to play dead? I can just picture that conversation happening over gunfire and blood spurting. While playing dead the lady watches her son being killed? That does not sound like playing dead with you eyes open.
Anderson Cooper… nice job. These interviews are laughable. My BS meter is pegged beyond the red line!
The U.S. public is indeed gullible over 9/11. However, this is quite understandable. Contrary to the clip’s last comment and with all due respect to Sabrosky, 9/11 was not at all a Mossad operation. Even assuming that the Mossad organized the Twin Towers’ terrorist controlled demolition, put together the aerial cover-up with the hijacks blamed on Osama bin Laden, and engineered the various fraudulent official U.S. reports on these matters, its contribution to 9/11 was important, but small.
It bears remembering that the most formidable, most remarkable, most successful, most flawless, most alarming 9/11 subconspiracy is neither the barely satisfactory false flag not its mediocre cover-up, but the excellent enduring censorship thereof by just about all opinion-makers ostensibly opposed to neoconservatism, from the Russian mass media to the western anti-war intellectuals to the Japanese professors of civil engineering to the Iranian theocrats to the Australian labor unions to Hugo Chavez to Amnesty International to etc. Had only a few of them properly educated their subjects, members or supporters on 9/11’s obvious essence, 9/11 would have fallen flat.
That well over half the U.S. inhabitants doubt the official 9/11 superstition while 10 to 20% know that it was a false flag is very refreshing. It shows a trend to accept the world the way it is even though almost all opinion-makers have been consistently treating in unison the mythical attribution of 9/11 to Osama bin Laden’s hijackers as an axiom.
9/11 Truth has not disappeared. It never appeared to begin with. Even as more people keep waking up to it, the institutional 9/11 censorship shows no sign of loosening. As more people pay less attention to the trees of the Mossad and of other distractions and more to the forest of the masterfully organized obfuscation the 9/11 censorship demonstrates the existence of, they will naturally decrease their confidence in criminally incompetent or criminally hypocritical rulers and institutions. This historical paradigm shift will take some time, but will probably lead humanity out of its silly war system and into an era where joy, harmony and prosperity will become commodities.
These Israeli Mossad agents got on Israeli TV after they were released from US custody, and stated on public TV that they were there to document the event, which proves foreknowledge, and their behavior (dancing and high-fiving) show that they were celebrating a successful operation.
Only a silly, silly person cannot see the elephant in the living room.
at the 420 mark Anderson Cooper asks the cousin about where she is on foregiveness… pause it in several places after 420… the lady closes her eyes and tries not to smile, but the smile is there just the same. Then the lady says the daughter of the dead pastor says “we are gonna’ be fine”… How is it anyone says that after hearing about their dead father? This lady is a terrible liar, her story is not the least bit convincing. The acting is even worse than Sandy Hook. I want to meet the joker that wrote this script, it’s horrible. How does anyone believe anything Anderson Cooper is involved with?
I agree with you. The interviews are not believable, with questionable details. She’s definitely smiling. I also noticed that in both of them Sylvia Johnson initially says that the killer told the survivor, “we need to keep someone alive”. Not sure if that “we” means anything or not, but it sounds odd.
Another victim’s son that does not cry about his dead mother. More “Cooperizing the Lie” by CNN. Cooper says people tweet him and are surprised by how many people want to talk about freshly murdered relatives. Notice how much time is spent “Cooperizing the victims, how no time was spent on the killer.
20 year’s after her brother’s murder by OJ Simpson, Kim Goldman still does not forgive him and talked about running over OJ with her car when she saw him in a parking lot. Watch Kim’s reaction to OJ’s not guilty verdict… this is what genuine grief looks like from a murder victim’s family. Contrast Kim’s reaction to her murdered relative, verses the grandchildren of a Charleston Church murder victim… smiling, laughing and wearing T-shirts that say hate won’t win. This is Alice and Wonderland…
something happened to my video, it got replaced with Obama’s eulogy. How does that happen James?, I even played it once and it was there, then suddenly another Obama’s video replaces it. Strange
wish I had an editing tool to delete the double posting or correct a dumb typo that makes you look illiterate
hey derek, do you remember the cultish Obama campaign encouraging ppl to make the fascist “O” hand symbol that looks very close to this awkward hand pose? (it thankfully did not catch on…)
More “Alice in Wonderland” surreal TV coverage by CNN. This story gets more bizarre by the moment. Judge made a speech at the accused murderer’s bond hearing, which is really odd. Then refers to accused’s family as victims – even stranger. The accused is arraigned by video and not in person… more strangeness. One of the accused’s guards looks androgynous and about 15 years old; He/she looks incapable of being an effective mall security guard, let alone a mass murderer’s prison guard. The lawyer on the 3 way panel coverage wipes away non-excistent tears on one eye, but not the other… so he only cries from his left eye??? and the lady on the panel cries not. The lawyer wiped his eye on cue from the interviewer. The crying lawyer perks up to the point of laughter. This is the strangest story coverage I have ever seen.
ABC gets in on the Cooperization of another big lie… coverage of the church rally… these people wouldn’t be swinging together in unison (with perfectly choreographed alternating current of the rows of people) for nothing right? Give me a break. I feel a hair ball forming in my throat. My BS meter is pegged to 11.
Okay, here’s a weird story. This person who used to appear as a commentator on CNN, and his wife (a former newsreader) have some kind of motel confrontation with someone in New Mexico who is trying to rob them (they say), and a kind of strange story of a gunfight emerges. So I thought I would look up the man in the story who worked for CNN, and found he is one Chuck de Caro, born in 1950, a native of Providence, Rhode Island (right there I am wondering) — and he invented some form of psychological warfare (he’s heavily involved with spooks and NASA and all that, and hangs out in Los Alamos) — called SOFTWAR which (Wikipedia says) is “The hostile use of global visual media to shape another society’s will by changing its view of reality.”
I mean all you need is that advertisement to know he is up to no good. But apparently the military has paid him some of our hard-earned money.
I don’t know that his little shoot-out is of any interest, or his bimbo wife, or what have you. But just that there’s this kind of thing he’s doing that makes certain kinds of people feel he is useful kind of creeps me out.
Do people really want to know the truth about deep events in history? I peg it at about 27% of our population. I grabbed that number out of thin air. Look no further than my own slow road to 911 truth. It took six long years for me to arrive there. When I first heard the news, it was from the Weather Channel of all places. They were calling it terrorism before anyone could figure out it was not an accident (before the second crash and before buildings turned to dust). They mentioned a terror attack casually in passing and then made their five day forecast. Hmmm I thought, what terror attack? I changed channels and watched TV nearly non-stop for a day or two. My first question came when the first twin tower disintegrated and tuned to dust. It defied everything I knew from building four high rise buildings during the summer breaks from engineering school. When the second one turned to dust, I thought wow, that’s doubly strange and doesn’t make any sense. I didn’t even think for a second that the plane crashes had anything to do with it. I used to build the forms for columns. I know the massive steel that goes into them. I poured the concrete into those forms. I built a couple thousand of them, plus I have analyzed their design. Now these were turning to dust from a plane crash? That doesn’t look right. After day two of TV coverage, I shut myself off from the event without looking deeper. I made a subconscious pact with myself to not allow the event to change the way I lived.
When did I realize the country had devolved into a police state regardless of my unspoken pact? The first time I encountered a body scanner at Denver International Airport. I had not heard of them before. Before I knew what hit me I was standing inside a glass booth with my hands raised, like I was being held up at gunpoint. I was shocked to see myself naked on a computer screen. I was dazed from the event in a surreal “this did not just happen” way. As I stepped out of the booth, I was confronted by a pint sized, shaved headed man with a chip on his shoulders the size of a 747.
“Axe me if it’s okay to go” I thought ‘yeah, I would like to “axe you” you surly little prick’. I wanted to beat him so hard his ancestors felt the pain. I am a paying customer here, I deserve respect and to be treated politely. I suddenly felt like David Attenborough in the “papers please” train scene of ‘The Great Escape’. No that doesn’t quite cut it, the Nazis were far more polite than this little Bonaparte want-to-be. You could just tell that Little Napoleon had been picked last on every school sports team his whole life, now he was getting even by treating me like a slave to be abused at his tender mercy. Napoleon was so thirsty to demonstrate his power, it oozed out of his pores like noxious gas. I said “Come again?”… “Axe me if it’s okay to go”… I bit and tentatively said “Is is okay to go?”… “NO!”… He proceeded to frisk me like I was a criminal is right before handcuffing. So seeing me naked wasn’t enough; frisking me served no purpose other than to dominate me. Now I know how rape victims feel… violated without the nasty forced penetration.
This surreal encounter playing Simon Says with Napoleon made me never want to fly again. It’s kind of funny that I am not the least bit worried about a terror attack while flying, because the chances are so small of it happening on any given flight. But I dread flying because being molested by airport security happens every single time I fly. I heard one traveler comment “this is what we need to be safe so I am fine with it”. That comment just bored into my soul like a tungsten bit spun by a Black & Decker. I think the comment hurt more than my Napoleon playing Simon Says encounter. I thought to myself, this country is finished as a free state if this is what people believe.
The plane landed. Being in the last row and not being in any hurry, I waited for everyone to exit the aircraft. As I casually got up to leave, four men speaking some exotic dialect boarded the plane to clean it. There was no doubt they were not born in America. I thought ‘what security do these men pass every time they board a plane?’ I thought how easy it would be for them to plant a bomb or a gun because no one is watching them and no one gives the cleaners a second thought. My conclusion was that airline security is only as strong as the weakest link. If these men weren’t subjected to the same security as I am every single time they board, the whole security theater I go through is a sham. TSA is not about security, it’s about taking away freedom to travel unmolested and to train us to be submissive lemmings. Imagine the risk I pose compared to the cleaners who have zero natural allegiance to this country. If there was a highjacking on a flight I was on, no box cutter would stop me from sub-doing them with extreme aggression. After 911, a gun pointed at me would not stop me from using every last breath to stop the highjacking. Knowing I was going to die anyway, the only thing that would stop me is when my heart took it’s last beat. How many men in America feel the same way? I know there’s millions of us. But his country has too many geldings and not enough stallions. Where did all our Stallions go? I think most of them died and were buried with John Wayne. Imagine what John Wayne would do to Napoleon playing Simon Says and ordering him around just to satisfy a sadistic need to dominate?
The airlines have laid down and allowed this to happen as so has the traveling public. All because of the official lie that 19 pint sized Arabs used box cutters to defeat the greatest, most sophisticated air defense system in world history. How does anyone buy that story on face value? I heard one traveler say “we just got caught with our pants down that day” He seemed like a reasonably sharp guy, how in the hell would he believe that? It was almost like he said, “you know my son’s little league baseball team could beat the Yankees if we caught them on a really off day”.
I remember the excitement I used to have traveling by jet, it felt luxurious and special. That’s been replaced by anxiety and dread. There’s only one way to stop the molesting… subject the private aircraft passengers to the same hand rape we endure on the public side and it would be over tomorrow. I used to hang out with the Colorado Avalanche Hockey Team at Combs Gate in Denver. I never gushed over them, so my presence was tolerated. The food was far better than the main terminal, so I was there most days as a limo driver to the executive jet set. Imagine the hockey players’ reaction to being hand raped by Napoleon – the Simon Says Player – before every flight. He would be upside down in a trash can faster than a slap shot.
This is a fantastic essay, Derek. I think you should rework it a little and submit it to James as a prospective stand-alone post. Your thoughts on this matter are really valuable.
A suggestion: I would include the theme the libertarians at Lew Rockwell’s site have been saying all along: airplanes are private property, and air travelers are customers of the companies who own them. Thus, security of the hardware and the people inside it is not the responsibility of the state, any more than the the limo you used to drive and the clients you drove for were. The Korean grocers who sat in front of their stores displaying guns were the only ones who made it through the Rodney King riots in the angelic city, after all. Private property (and a business’ customers) is protected by its owners, in a rational world. It is in the interests of an airline to keep their planes, and the ticket buyers, safe. It is only when a totalitarian state steps in that the nightmare you describe eventuates.
Great story, Derek. I can relate. I’ve had to travel a lot and every time I go to the airport my blood pressure starts to rise. We know that it is obedience training. It has absolutely nothing to do with safety or security. I’d gladly get on board with no security at all. It’s a giant mindf*%k.
Your story about the foundations made me think of the Pentagon. I worked for several years in an engineering office. We always had technical journals and such lying around I read an article about the upgrades being done to that section that was alleged hit by a “plane”.
The drawings had so much oversized rebar and the concrete mix was so hot there were problems with getting the aggregate to pack properly around all that rebar. I had the same thing happen on another project for an ammunition magazine.
When they showed that hole and tried to say that an aluminum airliner drilled right through there, and several other rings, I just laughed. Anyone with an elementary understanding of physics would see that it is impossible.
Just like the other buildings. Steel, concrete, plastic, drywall, safes, file cabinets, toilets and people do not simply sublimate to dust, instantly. But, they did. Maybe its because I’ve worked with steel as a hobby all my life. When I saw that “spire” simply “dustify”, my jaw dropped.
I’ve worked in an office environment for many years. Fortunately for me, I also have manual skills. I’m not ignorant of materials and how they behave. What truly surprises me in these stories is that I’m not the only one in this situation. Surely the pilots, mechanics, demolition people, etc., know this is a huge lie.
So, back to your point, because of a huge lie we now get groped in order to fly. We get treated like criminals for purchasing tickets to be crammed into a little cylinder and flown to our destination. They’ve taken what used to be a mildly pleasant experience and turned it into a living hell.
Regarding the subject of dancing Mossad agents; would cold blooded agents of one of the most disciplined, highly trained organizations in the world be so sloppy as to throw a public dancefest as the towers fell? Seems worse than sloppy, even staged, so as to promote “the Jews did it” speculation. Just my two cents, but it sounds like a part was being played, if it even happened at all.
If it even happened at all? This was shown on the day of 9/11. Anyone can google or youtube it. The fbi held them for 71 days. 20/20 even reported it. This is not speculative.
Please post a link to a video of dancing Mossad agents on top of a white van. Also, please find me a Mossad agent who actually admits he is a Mossad agent. I have no doubt it was reported, Sandy Hook was reported too, and I don’t believe it happened as either.
Chuckling, chortling, and outright laughing? Patrick must feel fantastic! I can only achieve all three when watching “Return of the Pink Panther”. Shamefully, I must admit, a moderate hangover may be required.
It is staged no doubt but not by Israels enemies but by their hardliners whos agenda is to corrall the Diaspora jews. There are other examples such as with Barbara Lerner Spectre who states openly in a speach in Sweden that we jews are organizing multiculturalism in Europe and they are going to hate us for it but it is nevertheless necessary. Says a supporter of appartheid Israel without sensing the outrageousness. This provocative behaviour is of course deliberate. And there is no wish for mutual understanding. The emissaries of the appartheid state prescribe mixing for the rest of us and they want to be hated so they dont have to compromise about anything. I’d like to be wrong about this negative interpretation but i fear I’m right.
Peter Grafström, thank you for the enlightening post. I went and listened to Barbara Lerner Spectre for the first time and it’s frightening that the way she casually throws out that jews will be “resented” for being at the forefront of forced multiculturalism but, hey, that’s how Europe will be “saved.” It’s outrageous, especially given the history of the 20th century, that she’s willing to use Europeans, jews and non-jews, against each other to advance a foreign political power play. It’s an horrific old game.
The “agenda… to corrall the Diaspora jews” is a subject that needs greater exposure. Thanks, Peter, for bringing it to light here.
The phrase “appartheid Israel” is always good for a chuckle. Then I think about it and start chortling. If I keep it up, I can even find myself laughing out loud.
I’ll bet you didn’t know, Peter, but one in six Israeli citizens is an Arab, in possession of all the same rights as Jewish Israelis. They sit on the Knesset.
I’ll bet you didn’t know, Peter, that the so-called “Palestinians” have assured the world that any political entity they are awarded will be guaranteed Jew-free (as are most Arab countries). You’re looking for “apartheid” in all the wrong places.
Which makes your follow-on statement all the more pathetic and sad:
“The emissaries of the appartheid state prescribe mixing for the rest of us and they want to be hated so they dont have to compromise about anything. I’d like to be wrong about this negative interpretation but i fear I’m right.”
“so they dont have to compromise”? They gave away Sinai to make peace with Egypt. They gave Gaza to the PLO (which quickly lost it to Hamas), in the hopes of making peace with the intransigent Arabs. They gave the hard-won buffer strip carved out of southern Lebanon to Hezbollah (“Allah’s party”), for the same reason, only to find it, like Gaza, a new launching-pad for missile attacks on Israeli cities and villages.
The sheer ignorance of the history of the Israeli-Arab conflict I see routinely displayed on this site is deeply discouraging to me.
Jews do very evil things. The intentional destruction of European countries’ cultural realities is sickening–and I’ve written about it here many times–and if Jewish people are engineering it, it is a particularly despicable evil. But if you are correct that this particular woman is, as you say, “a supporter of appartheid Israel,” implying that she wants Israel’s Arab citizens stripped of their citizenship and removed to “homelands,” well, you had better produce some proof of such a weird, outlandish assertion. I know of no such movement in Israel–and I follow the political landscape there pretty closely.
You keep returning to Sinai, Patrick. I thought we agreed that the 1967 war was a successful provocation from Israel and that the insiders knew the arabs posed no threat. They just wanted to grab more land. After a successful aggression instigated by people of the Hitler jugend frame of mind but unlike the Israeli leader before the war who was a man of peace, the rest of the world didnt accept this dirty operation. So the aggressors bargained with part of the loot. Thieves do bargain so what?
I know there is a minority of arabs in the Knesset. But you assumed I didnt know because they arent discussed much in foreign media.
The one in six is because the arabs who would have been a much larger fraction were driven out of their original homeland. And the arabs didnt make it jewfree back then because they hadnt yet been subjected to the later atrocities. And many jews in Iraq were chased away via false flags by Israeli agents. You totally omit such aspects.
So then for you it isnt appartheid when IDF forces deliberately humiliate kids and kill them everynow and then because they dont do it to everybody. What word would you like to use then? Appartheid means separate treatment.
They are grinding them down. Sometimes by much larger numbers.
And the Hamas has been admitted to have been backed and to some extent controlled by Israel and the cia. I agree that sending those rockets is extremely stupid but who benefits – obviously the hardliners in Israel. I’m very suspicious about who is behind it. If there is no other way than to sacrifice their own people it’s very sad and I don’t really know – is it or isnt it possible for the Palestinians to achieve more by other means.
I dont know if its true that the jews are behind multiculturalism everywhere – it was pushed by the Fabians long ago. But Spectre makes that claim. I do know those who have the initiative want to polarize the situation so the Diaspora jews dont distance themselves from Israel. Otherwise it would have been easy to avoid acting provocatively and let someone else do the job.
If it is true that the jews are organizing it then it explains why the antiimmigration political parties are accussed of working for Israel. Because they dont talk about the things Spectre says, but only criticize the muslims. It looks like Israel would be telling Europe: if you are so soft on the arabs, then here you are, take a bunch. Make your own Gaza.
You commented
Which makes your follow-on statement all the more pathetic and sad:
“The emissaries of the appartheid state prescribe mixing for the rest of us and they want to be hated so they dont have to compromise about anything. I’d like to be wrong about this negative interpretation but i fear I’m right.”
end of your comment
Patrick this was intended to be the impression she would make on some people and I was insinuating that although she herself may not be aware of it this effect on some of the grassroot critics of Israel is wanted by the hardliners. So my negative interpretation is about that underlying motive and its not about the objectivity of the text inside quotes. I fully admit that I wasnt explaining myself clearly. I dont blame anyone for having difficulties in reading between the lines. It was a deliberately pompous formulation intended to be somewhat ironic.
I only keep returning to Sinai, Peter, because the fact that they were willing to give it away, after having developed luxury resorts there, is proof that they are indeed willing to compromise. You say “Thieves do bargain so what?” but that’s not the right way to think about it. This is not a case of a burglar stealing jewels, and bargaining them back. War cases land to change hands, has done throughout history. It is extremely rare for a country to give away its gains, so far as I can tell. Sweden gave Norway back to the Norwegians. Why? Britain gave India back to the Indians. Why?
You say “I know there is a minority of arabs in the Knesset,” but you don’t seem to comprehend how this contradicts your assertion that Israel practices a form of Apartheid. The Arab citizens if Israel are full citizens in every sense.
You say “one in six is because the arabs who would have been a much larger fraction were driven out of their original homeland.” First of all, it wasn’t “their original homeland”; they were immigrants, just like the Jews. Practically no one lived there in the 1870s, when Zionism began, and it was Jewish enterprise that attracted Arabs from surrounding lands, for jobs. But most importantly, no one was “driven out”; those who left did so because they were advised to by the Arabs opposed to Israel’s independence, and told them that they would probably be driven into the sea along with each and every Jew if they did not run away. Those who said NUTS TO THAT!, and remained, became full Israeli citizens. The rest became voluntary refugees.
You say ” And the arabs didnt make it jewfree back then because they hadnt yet been subjected to the later atrocities. And many jews in Iraq were chased away via false flags by Israeli agents. You totally omit such aspects.” I omit those “aspects” because what you say about them is a complete distortion of what happened. An equal number of Jews was driven out of all the Arab countries in response to Israel’s declaration of independence and the number of Arabs who voluntarily left Israel, so as not to be murdered inadvertently by their brethren, as the Jews were driven into the sea.
You say “So then for you it isnt appartheid when IDF forces deliberately humiliate kids and kill them everynow and then because they dont do it to everybody. What word would you like to use then?” “Reaction,” for a one word answer. “Fear of being murdered by terrorists, as long experience has taught them,” for a longer one.
AND “Appartheid” DOES NOT “mean separate treatment.” Apartheid meant that black migrants to the Union of South Africa were not granted citizenship, but were domiciled into desolate, worthless landscapes termed “homelands.” When they were in the Union of South Africa, they were foreigners, guest workers, with none of the rights of South African citizenship–because they were not citizens. No place else has ever had a similar arrangement–and Israel is almost exactly the opposite of it. From day one, their Arabs were granted full citizenship, and even have a hand in forming the government and making the laws.
You say “They are grinding them down. Sometimes by much larger numbers.” I say, if they would accept that Israel has a right to exist as a Jewish state, and stop trying to fulfill the pledge to drive every Jew into the sea, they would find life to be quite congenial, and Israel would be a very good neighbor.
You say “And the Hamas has been admitted to have been backed and to some extent controlled by Israel and the cia.” Actually, Israel CREATED Hamas, as a way of diluting the monopoly of power of the PLO. Bad idea.
The rest of what you say is not as foolish and does not reveal so much historical ignorance. In fact, I agree with most of it. I’m no fan of Israel, nor of plotters of the unfolding New World Order. I know Barry Chamish, after all.
Sweden gave it back according to the german Kaiser because Sweden had an impotent King. Called him sloppy dick.
Britain because they couldnt handle it and weren’t backed by their cousin Us. If you really want to make a point it would be that both for Indias emancipation and the Sinai case the strength of the Ussr might be the reason. At least implicitly – meaning that all colonies would look at the Ussr for inspiration, whatever you think about it.
And sure in past times conquest was accepted. But Israel came to late.
And life isnt fair not even to imperialists. But if they succeed in crushing Syria and Iran using the Us they might be able to grab a greater Israel. And perhaps get away with it. I cant predict the future.
I know Israel hopes to be able to be accepted for doing what the europeans did to the ‘indians’ and Hitler admired that too so we may see a similarity between zionism and nazism which has been pointed out by many. Nazism was like a mirror image of zionism, freely expressed admittedly.
I use the term appartheid freely I’m no lawyer. And apply it to the atrocities regularly reported. And I dont think the negative aspects are overemphasized.
I agree that long before Israel was blackmailed into existence as D Ben-Gs agents got N Rockefeller to get the votes from Latin America there was indeed not so many people there. But their roots were a lot closer than those of the jewish immigrants.
Admittedly back then most people believed that the jews originated in ME and they believed they belonged there somehow. They are not to be blamed for later discovering that they didnt have their roots there at all. That is kind of ironic and seems to suggest that jews ought to assimilate in the west and dump zionism which is a crazy christian invention going back to Cromwell. The khazars have a german Uhrmutter I read somewhere.
But updating to the actual establishment of Israel the best land was taken. And chasing them away by creating a threatening environment and afterwards blaming bad advice doesnt make the wrongs right. If the Israelis were honest they would invite them back to their original homes.
The official story sounds like the typical psyop and you omit the false flags so I dont trust things happened by themselves. I judge Israel by a long range of examples of playing dirty. And with that kind of behaviour its fair to anull any consequences of bad advice by arab leaders under such traumatic conditions. Try to make an analogy in a european setting. Or in the Us. Would you accept ethnic cleansing because of a similar reason, not knowing for sure whether it was manipulated or genuine? You spend lots of time debunking that kind of foul play otherwise but not in this case.
You accept the official version and see no evil. It would have been easy for the Israelis to invite them back but the Israelis murdered whole villages in particular where they seemed to be developed and left some who seemed backward. People were rightly frightened. And had there been an honest fibre in those colonizers they would have invited those who fled to come back. But no of course not. Land was too precious.
I’m not distorting anything at all. You omit the false flags. Period.
So Patrick when IDF soldiers are ordered to strike shit on the drawings of kids in a kindergarten, you call that an understandable reaction?
And I’m not judging the individual soldier here. Maybe I should but I see this as the consequence of evil leadership. Leadership emphasizing polarization hoping never to compromise.
The thing is you chase part of them out using a successful psyop or you allow ethnic cleansing because the people got bad advice and then you cynically say suit yourself dumb arab and then after the successful shrinking of the original population you treat the minority left better.
I wont discuss whether its acceptable that Israel is to be a Jewish state since I have never taken a stand about it. Is it really ok?
Some orthodox jews seem to be critical against the idea. But I pass on that issue.
What about jews dumping zionism and approach the people in the ME without any ideas about being the chosen ones and apologize for having been a pain in the ass in that part of the world and show sincere respect for the arabs and Iranians. Maybe they would find the congeniality you speak of.
If they try really hard and learn to be humble instead of arrogant and stop the psyops (which you never touch)and dirty tricks for many years. Expose themselves and tell the truth of all their ugly deads. Then if that doesnt help and they still are not accepted on equal terms, then it would be harder to blame them. But in that case the world community would be on their side.
I give you the last word. I dont have more energy left for the topic.
“And sure in past times conquest was accepted. But Israel came to late.”
Nope. Some things never change. America will not give California back to Mexico, which we stole fair and square, but Israel gave Sinai back to Egypt. Wars cause land to change hands; always have, always will. But it is EXTREMELY rare for a country to give back the gains it made, just to make the loser happy.
“But if they succeed in crushing Syria and Iran using the Us they might be able to grab a greater Israel.”
This is a ridiculous statement. Why did Israel give back the Southern Lebanon buffer zone, if Israel is all about territorial expansion? Why does Israel keep shrinking?
“I use the term appartheid freely I’m no lawyer. And apply it to the atrocities regularly reported.”
You can’t do that. It’s a technical term, carrying a connotation of a special form of evil. Very emotional. It simply does not apply to Israel in any way at all.
“Israel was blackmailed into existence”
That is stupid, Peter. The League of Nations had Mandated Britain to create a homeland for the Jews in what it called “Palestine,” which was today’s Israel, the West Bank, and Jordan. Britain dragged its feet, essentially refusing to fulfill its mandate. So the Jews, disgusted, finally declared their independence. By then the League of Nations no longer existed. “Blackmail”? What are you talking about? The Jews had been building Israel since the 1870s. The fact that it would be an independent nation had long been planned. This is not arcane, hidden knowledge.
“Admittedly back then most people believed that the jews originated in ME and they believed they belonged there somehow. They are not to be blamed for later discovering that they didnt have their roots there at all. ”
You sound like a loon. The Bible is quite clear on the history. You should read it some time.
“The khazars”? You believe that crap? Even the guy who posited it later admitted his theory was false, and retired to Israel.
“If the Israelis were honest they would invite them back to their original homes.”
Since their original homes were in Egypt, Syria, and Iraq, Israel should indeed have “invited” them to return to where they had come from.
“I judge Israel by a long range of examples of playing dirty. And with that kind of behaviour its fair to anull any consequences of bad advice by arab leaders under such traumatic conditions.”
You hold Israel to an impossibly high standard. All countries “play dirty.” Britain, or America, or the Vikings. Or Rome, Babylon, Assyria, Mohammed’s hoards, Genghis Kahn. Montezuma’s Mexico. China. Japan. Give me a damn break, Peter. Get real. History is harsh. Countries act in their own interests (except in the case of the formerly white ones in the 21st centuries, whose leaders all seem intent on flooding them with aliens from incompatible civilizations as fast as possible).
If you present objective evidence you will be shut down, demonized, vilified, and in the end perhaps killed.
Controlled opposition is more important to the agenda than those who run the agenda itself.
Peace Frog says there are only 1500 Mossad members. PF fails to mention that virtually ALL jews will become instant sayanim should 1500 Mossad need help. PF fails to mention that Israel buys people like our Congress, thus amplifying the reach and power of those poor, ‘lil Mossadniks.
PF fails to realize the jews “stick together”. PF fails to mention hiring of apparatchiks like alQaeda, ISIS, etc. PF believes the absurd figure of 3 billion dollars of “aid” to Israel military when it’s closer to 20 billion according to government insiders.
Haven’t the Rothschilds proven that jews are the mightiest force on the planet? I know Pat thinks this is scurrilous exaggeration, but let’s see some figures and not just superheated air that denies the power of the jew.
Appreciate the back up.
It sounds like a slam dunk observation until you get to the end. I don’t understand why you would take a solid position that you built up after impressive research and convincing critical thinking and drop it like a hot potato into a highly debatable position at the last second.
Why is it so outlandish to think the Israeli Secret Intelligence Services (ISIS) and their sundry branches (Mossad) had something to do with 9-11? Have you forgotten the dancing Israelis who were back in Israel weeks after the attacks and telling their ‘story’ on an Israeli talk show?
There were seven buildings with WTC in their names. All of them were destroyed that morning. No airplanes struck any of them. WTC1 and WTC2 were transformed into dust and blew away. WTC6 looked like a 12 foot wide post hole digger was used to systematically remove the middle of the building, all the way down to the foundation–but where did the material go? Building seven, NYC’s crisis command center, looks like it was destroyed in a controlled demolition. Three, four and five have their strangeness, too.
People who think they are are serious about 9/11, and do not focus on all seven buildings, are not truly serious about the subject.
Why would Israel want all seven buildings destroyed?
Who, in fact, wanted all seven buildings destroyed?
Anyone can hire dancers. Anyone can hire actors to go on television and say anything. What does the performance of actors prove?
WTC1, WTC2, and WTC6 were destroyed, probably, by very small nukes. I say “probably” because lophatt has many times argued the point persuasively, but I would not be surprised if Judy Wood is correct and it was Tesla technology, weaponized. I don’t know. Either way, if Israel utilized such technologies, to destroy SEVEN buildings in an American city, they must have had a reason. What is it? Again: why all seven?
Likewise, no plane hit the Pentagon. No missile, either. Did Israel plant the explosives in that building that produced the damage we witnessed? Did Israel orchestrate the bizarre sequence of events Jack White documented on the lawn, by analyzing the photographic evidence?
Did Israel shoot down the plane over Pennsylvania, and cover up the crime?
Irrational Jew hatred mystifies me. Irrational Israel hatred almost as much.
Some times it seems as if Emmanuel Goldstein is really believed to be the enemy of Big Brother. God help us.
9/11 is the key to understanding the kick-off to the New World Order. To reduce it to “the Mossad” is evidence of a real lack of imagination. The world changed that day. The destruction of all WTC buildings was the declaration of that fact. People who think it is the Jews that made that declaration are sadly lacking in insight about the enemy humanity is facing in our time. It is as if they believe a cartoon.
The world is being remade before our eyes. A fake meme of “white supremacy” has been created, even as European countries are systematically filled with people of alien civilizations, crowding out the natives–and the natives who notice the artificiality, and complain about it, are called “racists,” as if it is all perfectly natural and, THEY are weird for not getting with the plan. Completely, obviously, fake white-on-black murders in America are presented to goad black Americans into hating white people, and anyone who points it out is called a “racist.” The press is 100% with that lie.
This is all a part of a plan.
People who think the Jews are a sort of diabolical Fu Manchu, at the controls of the destiny of the world, tire me. Our enemy is not the Jews (although, plenty of Jews are involved). It is Principalities and Powers in High Places who are behind it. Heard that anywhere? They are not human beings.
It is 6:09 as I hit Post Comment, assured that this missive will plunge into the deep sleep of Moderation. Hopefully, James will check the moderation queue and release it in time for the late night crowd to tear at me like piranhas. I’ll check my carcass in the morning.
Bravo, Patrick! Well said. It is also incredible – and no one but Dr. Wood has addressed this issue, I believe – that the buildings surrounding the World Trade Center site or the “bathtub” were seriously damaged by the incredible destruction that rained down in the area.
I am sorry, I hit the key too soon – I meant to say that it was incredible that the buildings surrounding the World Trade Center site were not seriously damaged.
First, Pat, I believe that the U.S. intelligence agencies, whose annual budget is larger than the entire Israeli annual budget, knew of and were the main conspirators on 911. The Mossad has less than 1500 employees, and certainly, none of its actions on 911 could have fallen under the radar of the U.S. intelligence cabal. That being said, here are some of your questions/observations and my thoughts on the matter:
“Why would Israel want all seven buildings destroyed?”
Israel wants the U.S. to destroy its enemies in the Middle East. U. S. hegemony over the Middle East = an unrestrained and all powerful Israel in the region. This is now playing out with Israel’s fierce objections to lifting Iranian sanctions.
“Anyone can hire dancers. Anyone can hire actors to go on television and say anything. What does the performance of actors prove?”
Fails to explain why the Mossad agents, posing as students, had foreknowledge of the events (remember the dancing Israeli’s in Liberty State Park in Jersey City, N.J. on 911?). Why did they tell FBI Newark F.O. agents “we are friends” the Arabs are the common enemy? Do hired dancers/actors get, Joe Lieberman, a sitting Senator (and the V.P. Candidate for the Democratic Party in the 2000 Presidential Election), to lobby for their speedy return to Israel over FBI investigators’ objections?
I am no apologist for Israel, Peace. I know too much about it.
But none of your objections to my remarks addresses my actual questions. I gather you are a lawyer. Take the testimony (i.e. mine) seriously. Address the specific points I brought up.
How scooping out and removing the core of WTC6, while leaving the exterior walls standing, helped Israel “to destroy its enemies in the Middle East” is a mystery you will need to unravel for me. It’s beyond my ken. How destroying buildings 3, 4, and 5 helped to do that is beyond me as well. Please enlighten me.
As for the dancing actors, they are probably the Gene Rosens of the operation. All of the crazy ops have included intentionally planted rabbit trails for “conspiracy theorists” to waste valuable hours pursuing. That’s CIA 101. Conspiracy analysis 101 teaches how to detect them right away.
Is Israel involved in creating the New World Order? As the Dude said, “does the Pope shit in the woods?”
If you want to know what is going on, 9/11 is the key. If you think Israel is the key to finding that key, you are wasting your time–because it’s not. If you want to find that key, you have to get into the Deep Underground Military Bases, and ask the people who built and maintain them. If you can obtain a day pass for a visit to one of those facilities, and the top of the top grant you a tell-all interview, and they tell the truth, you won’t find out that it’s the jooooooz who are running the show. I can assure you of that.
OK, so you are reluctant to tag jews with various intrigues. Your scientific protocol appears to me, a scientist, as scanty at best. You are unfortunately one who makes a statement and fails to expose the thought process that produced such a blanket statement. Maybe you are just unaware that jews own nearly all of the media. Maybe you have inborn bias against these poor, little victims of those nasty Christians. Maybe you side with Israel against the Palestinians.
Boring. Just boring….
“Maybe you are just unaware that jews own nearly all of the media.”
Odd. I thought most of the media is publicly traded corporations, and that most stock is owned by pension funds and insurance companies.
“Maybe you have inborn bias against these poor, little victims of those nasty Christians.”
What?
“Maybe you side with Israel against the Palestinians.”
I think if the Arabs stopped murdering Israelis any time they get a chance, and agreed that Israel has a right to exist, they could have their own country in a heartbeat. But as long as they retain the goal of driving all the Jews into the sea, I side with the ones who’d be drowned, yes. Sue me.
The “Palestinians” assure the world that any political entity they are awarded will be 100% Jew-free, Gil. Did you know that one in six Israeli citizens is an Arab? That Arab Israeli Arabs possess precisely the same legal and social rights as Jewish Israelis? It’s easy to decide who to side with.
Whoa Patrick – easy there. I didn’t use the word Jews. I said the Mossad. In fact, it may be another branch of ‘secret service’ as yet an ‘unknown unknown’. I realize there was no plane at the Pentagon and I realize the (seven) buildings in NYC were taken down by controlled demolition – whether nuclear in nature, I don’t know. The powers that could get away with having the U.S. military stand down and/or take action when it was too late are those that also run the money. After all, ‘money makes the world go around, the world go around.” I’m sure you’ve heard that before. As for the diabolic, the spirit world MUST have its human agents.
You asked who would want all 7 WTC buildings destroyed.
You may have read this, but others may not have yet. Bernard Lewis makes the case, in 1992, in behalf of the Anglo-American establishment, for the future carve-up of the Mideast.
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/middle-east/1992-09-01/rethinking-middle-east
In addition, there was reporting that Guiliani’s bunker sat atop SEC records and Worldcom records. So destroying the Building 7 may have been the real intent and the rest was simply part of the ‘show’.
Also, it has been reported that WTC1 and WTC2 supposedly had asbestos and were ‘too expensive’ to clean up, so it could have been a ‘two-fer’.
Let us not forget that General Wesley Clarke is on record stating he was told by military brass that the U.S. was going to take down seven countries in five years. (still available on youtube.)
Do I expect to ever know the entire truth? No. But we can surmise quite a bit of why it happened. The ‘neo-cons’ (evidently and primarily either Zionists or Zionist sympathizers) made it clear another Pearl Harbor event would be needed to get the public behind more Mid-East invasions. The first ‘Gulf War’ was to soften up not just Iraq but the American public to the idea that Saddam was Saddam-Hitler and that we made a mistake by not taking him out completely during the first ‘war’.
I think that this story will get analyzed, more facts will be uncovered, and credible voices in alternative media venues will join in. The fact is, I believe the Howland story sounds like a honey pot scheme from what I know about how these things have been used in the past. It is a no-brainer that this guy was under watch because of his nexus too 911. It doesn’t take much for clever agents to play on his weakness, and use generally accepted KGB-style, subversion techniques to undermine him (e.g., if they want a woman to become a libertine, for whatever reason, introduce her to swinger/sex sites through subtle suggestion). We still need a little more on motive for a “slam dunk”, for instance, was he talking about 911 or raising questions to the wrong people or in the wrong forums? The idea is to open up a discussion, and hopefully convince a public that has been largely misled regarding these types of events. In order to get the public to believe what is happening in this country, they have to be spoon fed facts that the MSM is selectively ignoring or actively disparaging.
Ray Howland, an operational flight supervisor with American Airlines, was arrested on sex charges for attempting to meet a mother and child at a Pennsylvania hotel for sex.
Howland was a supervisor on duty on 9/11 and gave orders for the situation on board the flight not to be released publicly. His name appears several times in the 911 Commission Report. Transcripts of his communications that day are available on the web. He also had an active scholarship created in his name.
Allegedly, he placed an online advert soliciting a mother/daughter or sister/sister sexual encounter without mentioning anything about an underage girl.
There is a term used in law enforcement and, moreover, in intelligence circles, called a “honeypot trap”.
The alleged posing from an unnamed online forum reads:
“I’d love to find a mother/daughter pair (or more) of sisters, or a couple of young women interested in getting together for some fun tonight,” the post on an unidentified website said, according to WTAE.”
http://heavy.com/news/2015/06/ray-howland-arrested-american-airlines-executive-manager-charged-sex-crimes-pay-sex-with-child-girl-mother-9-11-report-photo-mugshot/
Patrick, you say Roberts is paranoid regarding the power of Israel, are you also saying the talk about the bankroll of the Rothschilds is a total lie, an exaggeration? Are you saying they are paupers, are you saying they have no power whatsoever?
I suggest you look up the names David Irving, Ernst Zundel, Sylvia Stolz, Germar Rudolf, Nick Kollerstrom. These folks have been incarcerated for suggesting the Holocaust is not the 100% God’s truth.
I respect your depth in a number of areas that you relate to. For 40 years, I’ve read just about everything I could grasp in my hot little fist regarding the formation of Israel, origin of jews, etc etc. You have chosen to re-define the meanings of words like “scarrily irrational”. Can you start elaborating on how you arrived at this conclusion? Does it mean if people differ from you they need a shrink?
Personally, I think you are way, way, way out of line and way beyond your capability to utter such a global statement. Still, you show courage in uttering such a bloviated rumination that I have to give you credit for extending your neck onto the guillotine. It takes guts to try and fool people at times, but sometimes things don’t work out. They didn’t this time.
That said, your body of work is deserving of merit and I’d be the first to proffer this in front of you.
“are you also saying the talk about the bankroll of the Rothschilds is a total lie, an exaggeration? Are you saying they are paupers, are you saying they have no power whatsoever?”
Of course not.
As for Roberts’ utter irrationality on Israel, here’s a great example: http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2015/05/26/israel-discredit-america-paul-craig-roberts/
In this one (http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2015/04/13/power-lies/) he writes this: ” Even today Israeli Zionists point to Washington’s extermination of the Plains Indians as the model for Israel’s theft of Palestine”, a statement so astoundingly ridiculous only someone who has lost his reason could say it. Israel’s “theft” of “Palestine”? Only a nut, or someone with no historical knowledge of the subject could say something so stupid. The League of Nations game Britain a Mandate to create a homeland for the Jews in what it called “Palestine,” which included everything that is today Israel, the West Bank, and Jordan. In the end they only ended up with a fraction of it. So if anyone stole “Palestine”, it was Britain that stole if from the Jews.
But it’s worse than that. PCR felt compelled to drop that delusional statement into the midst of a completely unrelated topic, just because it’s a fever that is always heating his brain, apparently.
In this one (http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2015/04/12/hope-horizon-comes-greece-paul-craig-roberts/) he writes this: “The war on terror is a hoax. It is a creation of the evil neoconservatives who intend Washington’s world hegemony and Israel’s hegemony from the Nile to the Euphrates.” I laugh at such nonsense; Israel has been relentlessly SHRINKING. It owned Sinai, which almost took it to the Nile, and AND GAVE IT TO EGYPT in exchange for peace. In a suicidal fir of insanity, it gave Gaza to Hamas. In another display of suicidal depression, it gave another terrorist group, Hezbollah, the buffer zone in Southern Lebanon that protected the people of Northern Israel–again, in exchange for a peace that never came.
In this one (http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2015/04/07/iran-nuclear-energy-agreement-force-prevails-law-paul-craig-roberts/) he writes this: “…the crazed Israeli government and its neoconservative agents, who represent Israel’s interests, not America’s, have almost driven the US to war with Iran…” He wrote that evan though Obama has spent his whole presidency trying to end America’s friendship with Israel and make Iran the regional superpower. As I say, on the subject of Israel PCR is delusional.
In this one (http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2015/03/30/middle-east-holocaust-paul-craig-roberts/) he writes this: “Look at the Republicans in Congress and in state governments. They hate the environment. They love polluters. They worship Israel and Israel’s destruction of the Palestinians and the ongoing theft of the Palestinians’ country, a 60-year old activity. Just look at the map of shrinking Palestine. More is stolen each day.” I wonder, when he says things like this, if he’s sane.
In this one (http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2015/03/24/us-government-us-military-became-murder-inc-paul-craig-roberts/) he writes this: “Remember that the Israelis denounce terrorists for exploding suicide vests inside Israeli restaurants.” Well, duh.
This one (http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2015/03/23/washington-intend-war-russia-pcr-interviewed-saker/) is an interview. It’s a good example of how his obsession with Israel saturates his thinking.
This takes us back to late March, Gil. I promise you, if I kept working my way back through his posted articles this would be just the tip of the iceberg.
I never write things I can’t prove, unless I openly admit that I am speculating. Feel free to challenge me at any time.
Well Patrick I’m going to challenge you on your assertion about the irish and spanish in a recent post on another thread. The spanish probably didn’t all arrive in Ireland because of the Armada. First, to sail from Spain to Ireland is a cinch if you remain in the shallower waters close to the coast lines heading north; such a trip wasn’t challenging to make and suggests a longer period of communion between the two catholic countries. Second, there are streets in large cities in Spain that bear irish names, further proving that some relationship was ongoing and not discreet to a single event. I really don’t know but I think your Armada theory has holes, just like the actual boats.
Patrick
I guess such a comment of yours might help you to get a nice deal for publishing and disseminating some of your works to a wider audience? Or are these your genuine opinions?
Sinai? The Israeli leader until the 1967 war was totally against it so the plotters, including Dayan had to replace him. The insiders knew very well that there was no threat from the Arabs, they very successfully provoked the war to grab some more land. Including the fake radiotransmissions, which helped them provoke an attack from Jordan.
The Us didnt want this escalation since at that time they didnt have the total collusion with the saudis which later emerged so the Us warned the arabs and that was the cause of the attack on the USS Liberty. Of course Israels arrogance was based on knowing that the Us admin would continue to back the State of Israel no matter what.
I’ve never heard your theory before, Sue, but the one I espoused is fairly well known. I’ve studied Irish history fairly deeply, and never saw a single reference to regular Iberian sexual commerce with Ireland. As for the Irish pubs in Spain, did you know that Spain in recent decades has become the premier vacation/retirement destination for people hailing from the British Isles? They’ve re-created entire neighborhoods there, as they flee the ones at home that have been taken over by Moslems.
I like you, Peter, but sometimes I don’t understand you. Let’s look at what you said.
“I guess such a comment of yours might help you to get a nice deal for publishing and disseminating some of your works to a wider audience?”
From your typing fingers to God’s computer screen.
“Or are these your genuine opinions?”
Absolutely.
First off, it should be understood that I absolutely despise the government and the people who rule Israel, from the start to today. The whole lot is guilty of crimes against humanity of the highest category–and that includes the vast majority of Israel’s Jews. To understand how catastrophically evil it all is, one need only read Barry Chamish’s books.
So when I point out the irrationality of PCR’s unhinged remarks, it is not because I think Israel is some terrific thing. It’s just that I know the history, and hate that kind of bizarre emotionalism. Attack Shimon Peres for Murdering Yitzhak Rabin. Attack what they did to the “ringworm children.” Attack the monopolistic fascism of the system that keeps more than 90% of Israelis barely able to pay the monthly bills, even as billionaire overlords with their complete control of the country strut around like peacocks, pretending that Israel is an entrepreneurial hi-tech paradise. The list of horrors is long. It just does not include the ridiculous fever-dreams that haunt PCR.
The Six Day War. You want me to write a book here?
I guess you don’t believe that Israel gave the Sinai to Egypt (along with the luxury resorts they had developed for first-class tourists), in exchange for what turned out to be a very cold peace. I’m guessing you think it’s still a part of Israel. If that’s the case, you should look that one up, Peter. You’re in for a surprise.
“The Us didnt want this escalation since at that time they didnt have the total collusion with the saudis which later emerged so the Us warned the arabs and that was the cause of the attack on the USS Liberty.”
Uh, no.
Fresh off the successful Gulf of Tonkin hoax, that gave Lyndon Johnson his desired war, he thought that things like that are easy. So he ordered Israel to sink the USS Liberty–but with unmarked planes and torpedo boats. The idea was to blame the false flag on Egypt, bringing America into the war, which would end Nasser’s rule and the Egyptian client status with the Soviet Union. Israel was just obeying orders.
“Of course Israels arrogance was based on knowing that the Us admin would continue to back the State of Israel no matter what.”
Precisely the opposite.
Patrick forgive me for suspecting you might have had a nice book contract pending judging from what you said about Sinai. I was referring to the injustice in them having at all grabbed Sinai in the first place in the faux heroic war of 1967.
You dont think they landed on the moon and I am to take your word for it that Israel specifically focussed on destroying the radio equipment while the real motive was just to make a false flag?
John Loftus and Mark Aarons would be happy to expose Johnson like that and they are pro-Israel. But as far as I remember they say Israel wanted to prevent the Liberty from sending intel to the arabs. This is less damning for Israel than what I wrote in the previous comment but still logically compatible.
There was in those days not yet a strong cooperation with the Saudis which later led to the oil price surge blamed on the 1973 war and benefitting western big oil and investments by the Saudis in the west ie the opposite of what the public was led to believe. So there was some real concern at the earlier time 1967 about loosing control over the ME.
I am not an expert in these matters, Peter.
Here’s one thing I know. PCR claims Israel keeps “stealing” land, and growing. They might have “stole” Sinai. Fine with me. BUT THEY GAVE IT BACK. That’s akin to the United States giving back all the lands it won in the war with Mexico, but only years later, after California was already developed. This is unimaginable.
Israel, apparently, is that desperate for peace with its neighbors. If it grows, it is perfectly willing to shrink again, if the attacks will only stop.
I don’t think I’m missing anything here.
I applaud Paul Craig Roberts for his comments here about 9/11. However, the comments added at the end about Mossad may or may not have been approved by Roberts. Is there any evidence that he did indeed authorize those statements to be added to his own? (The change in voice is sudden, and unexplained.)
It is clearly written in English “Dr. Alan Sabrosky former Director of Studies, U.S. Army War College” during the part of the video in which a different voice is talking about a Mossad connection.
Yes, PeaceFrog, the author of that comment is identified on the video. But it was not clear to me when watching the video whether Roberts authorized that comment to be appended to his own statement. Roberts did not introduce it, or add his own agreement with those words. Our world is full of photoshopped documents, and doctored audio. Without an explicit statement from Roberts how can we know that he fully endorses Sabrosky’s opinion on the matter?.
As someone who reads everything PCR writes, he has an almost scarily irrational opinion about the imagined power and nefariousness of Israel. So I doubt he’d complain.
Thank you, Patrick, for your opinion, which I value. However, I just did what I should have done from the beginning and looked at Roberts’ own website – paulcraigroberts.org. (I had searched his recent papers on unz review before commenting initially and found nothing about this topic.) I searched for “Sabrosky” on Roberts’ website and found nothing, then I looked through his posts for the month of June 2015 and did not find this video nor any other comments about 9/11. The reason that I have taken this so seriously is that it seems to me that whenever anyone criticizes the media’s “narrative” on any of the stories that scream to be hoaxes, immediately they are infiltrated by anti-semite language of some form or another, making it difficult for folks to pass the original posts on without themselves appearing to be anti-Semite. This video seemed to make that case clearly. Roberts’ argument is clear-cut in the video, then we have an opinion with no associated evidence by someone else that “dirties” Roberts’ argument by association. Disinformation is everywhere and it is getting harder and harder to disassociate oneself from it. Of course, if there is good evidence that Mossad was responsible, I would be happy to review it. I find 9/11 to be so perfectly planned and carried out that it is difficult to believe any of us mere mortals were capable of the act.
“Next thing you will tell me is we didn’t go to the moon, just like Leaky Pipe”… (my grandfather’s nickname – he was a master plumber). My father said that every time I said something that he deemed far fetched. I heard it so many times growing up but by the last time – I was in my mid 40s. So it took 30 some years to finally check out the story, when I had no reason to doubt it. I was shocked to see just how much evidence there was to support the story we did not go to the moon. How many otherwise smart people are there that flat out refuse to look for the truth on 911 ? The country is full of them, and that’s the problem. When I first looked into 911, I was hell bent for leather to prove the inside job theory was insane and there was nothing to the story. It was like standing at the bottom of a dam that just opened the flood gates. There was simply no resistance I could muster to counter act the force of the truth. It was an unstoppable wall of water you could only swim with, no matter how hard you wanted to resist it. Once you face the truth on the moon landings that never happened and 911 being orchestrated by our own government, there is simply no way to take any big news story on face value. That goes for Waco, Oklahoma City and Sandy Hook. They have have pulled off orchestrating the biggest lies in history. The Charleston Church Massacre is small potatoes in comparison.
Every nation with the capability tracked the Apollo missions with radar. So they at least went into lunar orbit. However, Russia recently asked for proof of the missions in an obvious publicity stunt, so I don’t know what to think of that yet.
No human could have passed through the Van Allen Belts in those aluminum-foil constructed craft and survived. No man has even orbited the moon. Russia knows full well that we did not accomplish this feat, and in their public statements and questions, is most likely threatening the US government with disclosure of proof that it is a lie, and the US doesn’t want that, because it will be the first card to be withdrawn that will cause the entire house of cards to collapse.
All governments cooperate with each other in these frauds, as long as there is perceived benefit in cooperating.
You can start here, and if you read all 14 chapters, you will see how ridiculous the entire “moon landing” hoax really is:
Wagging the Moondoggie, Part 1
http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/Apollo1.html
The argument about the radiation is wrong. What I remember right now is: They get some extra doseage during the approximately 57min passage, but it’s far below the limit for acute radiation sickness.
The worst part has a much shorter portion of that duration.
Most of the doseage comes from the 6 day journey way beyond the Allen Belts. And they use plastic rather than lead(as some might think necessary) for decreasing the secondary radiation caused by the cosmic rays. I dont remember but I think the plastic converts the energy more effectively for a given weight of the shield like a scintillator into harmless light .
Reblogged this on Today,s Thought.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8W9_qN64S4s
this video is pretty far out, but once you cross the Rubicon, there is no turning back. Once you see through 911, all bets are off – even in retrospect – on what big lie can be told, sold and perpetuated. Replacing Paul in the Beatles, it’s no big leap when you see through the Moon Landings. Once the victors lay all war atrocities conveniently wrapped in a bow at the door step of the Nazis, the Allies never had to answer for theirs. No one ever talks about how the Nazis never firebombed civilian targets in American cities and how the Japanese targeted our military instead of downtown Honolulu.
Interesting video. I studied this once upon a time. I think there’s little doubt that “Faul” replaced Paul. The rest is a mish mash of speculation.
I actually think that Faul is largely responsible for them achieving such success. There is no other band like them. I’ve marveled over them for years.
When you look at Faul it is clear he is more at home on the piano than Paul. He is also more musically talented. Before the switch they were basically a rock and roll band with a good manager. After the switch they really began to explore creatively.
While the ruse is upsetting, the fact is that the band continued to improve. There is something mysterious about them that isn’t found with other bands.
The product they produced is far more than the sum of its parts. Anyone with their resources could throw the elements together but they wouldn’t come out with anything approaching their music.
I have many favorite bands. I like them for various reasons. None of them are like the Beatles. Actually, if the switch had not occurred, it would still be a mystery as to why what they did worked so well. It is very rich and multi-layered but words alone don’t do it justice.
Lophat
Isnt it a simpler explanation that someone was playing practical jokes and discreetly inserted himself where previously Paul was sitting without the surrounding guests paying close attention, so some old photos seem to prove that a change has taken place. Far simpler than to assume the talented musician would have been substituted with someone on par with him.
Dear Lo & Pete: I think 911 truth is like a gateway drug. Once you come to terms with absurdity of the official lie and the sheer scale of it, replacing Paul is pretty easy to accept. I think one of the more telling indicators is the way Faul reacted to direct questions about it. Freeze framed micro-expressions tell a tale you can’t see in real time. I think Lo is right, Faul is better than the original. I saw him play a concert in 2010 at Fenway Park. It was awesome. There was maybe a quarter of the concert dedicated to solo and Wings material. All the rest was Beatles. Faul gave us our $100 worth and then some. BTW… this concert had the most in your face Chemtrailing I have seen in 8 years of watching. The grid they built over Fenway was the tightest I have ever seen and it was non-stop. Once you understand the depth and breadth of 911 scull duggery… it’s like a primer for accepting that the moon landings were fake. One of the biggest reasons I don’t think we went was the 3 way TV appearance of the astronauts… they talked about the greatest feat in human history with all the excitement normally shown when discussing doing laundry and taking out the trash. It blew my mind watching it 40 years after the fact. It said more to me than the photo anomalies and technical hurtles NASA just said we need to overcome to fly to Mars, that we supposedly already overcame 46 years ago?????? Once you come to terms with how far the gov’t will go to decieve and manipulate us with 911 and the Moon Landings…
Sandy Hook, Waco, Oklahoma City and now Charleston Church shooting… is duck soup (obvious).
I agree with Derek, completely. But Peter, dude, if you are correct, I think you are on to a Nobel prize winning discovery. (Does it help to live where the Prize is awarded?) If you are right, Paul grew half a head taller in just a few days–when he has in his twenties! And he changed from left-handed to right-handed at the same time! This should be studied. Has this ever happened to a person before? Awesome.
Peter, there’s a bit more to it than appearances. While the original Paul was the most talented of the group musically, he wasn’t made of the same stuff (musically) as Faul.
While some get all all ga-ga over John, he was competent as a rocker, not “gifted”. If you want a comparison of rockers, go find an Elvis Costello video and watch him belt out a song.
Faul added fantastic melodic content and continued Paul’s original role of keeping John under control in public. As luck (or whatever) would have it, the replacement was a stunning success.
There was an Italian couple who were forensic experts who analyzed the photographic evidence fully expecting to find that Paul was Paul. They didn’t. There is much more out there than this video.
I have a couple of videotapes of Faul practicing with Wings prior to a world tour at his studio. He’s extremely good. He knows what he’s doing.
So, while some bemoan the deception, at least it resulted in a one-of-a-kind band and some great music. Those who believe that the original was more of a genius are wrong.
Derek, I think I agree with you. For me, at least, things are what they are. After years of looking at this, my conclusion is that there are far more lies than truths put out there for public consumption.
I have feelings about that. I just don’t let my feelings influence my judgements about what I’m looking at. I don’t look at it to make myself happy (or sad). The only thing I have “faith” in is my religion, that’s a choice. The rest depends on what I see.
As to whether truth seeking is a “gateway drug”, I think the uncomfortable part is that, sooner or later, those who are serious have to make a decision to give up on what they’ve been conditioned to believe. That appears to be more frightening for some than others.
As to your concert, yeah, he’s amazing. He’s gotten a lot of bad press. I think his music is original and arresting. Some find it “schmaltzy”, I don’t. His melodies and arrangements are up there with the best.
My comments about the Beatles remain the same. They were truly unique. Individually they were competent, together they were amazing.
Patrick
You agree completely with Derec. This means you dont think they landed on the moon. To me this weakens your credibility for judging the case with Pauls disappearance. I admit that if he died there would be a motive to save the band using a substitute, but did he die?
And why would it be so important to keep the secret now?
To prevent Fauls real relatives from inheriting anything?
Or to avoid being exposed for Pauls murder?
Seems like a surealistic plot.
But if it is beyond doubt that they are as different as you say I admit it’s not easy to explain away. There would have to be a series of fake photos and lies.
Peter, the music business in the last half of the 20th century became a vast psy-op. Although it’s not directly on the topic, if you read my MHB article (http://memoryholeblog.com/2015/04/29/what-happened-to-the-music/), and click through some of the links, you will see that lots of people have explored this in recent years.
It has a lot to do with the CIA/MI6, MK-Ultra, mind control and the creation of the New World Order. Drugs.
The Beatles could not have had the profound effect they did if the music was not so astounding as it was. But it was.
I Want to Hold Your Hand could not a social revolution make. Sexy Sadie could.
“I read the news today, oh boy, about a lucky man who made the grade….”
“…5,000 holes in Blackburn Lancashire…”
That–and the astounding music in between the two sides of the song, and at the end–is the stuff that haunts the heart, and instructs a young mind in how to look at life. The fact that such a song could be created at all, much less by the boys who wanted us to know “I love you ya, ya, ya” a few short years ago is worthy of examination.
And as Dr. Fetzer points out, it is very difficult to explain the justification for a wildly popular musical act abruptly ceasing to perform in public, becoming a purely studio, record-making operation. There had never been a pure studio band before. Even when Brian Wilson made Pet Sounds in the Studio with The Wrecking Crew, the Beach Boys continued to tour.
I have no idea what went on with Paul’s family. I focus on what is easy to ascertain, and what the implications are. The family was dealt with somehow.
It is indeed surrealistic. But such is life, when social engineers are at the throttle.
The series of fake photos and lies are well documented here. Not to become any more tedious than is my natural presence here, I won’t link to those sources again. Just look at my previous comments on the subject, and click.
As for my losing my credibility re/ my conclusions about Apollo, all I can say is that I have put in the hours. Long, long, hours. Not only is all the purported “evidence” a hilarious joke, it is physically impossible to do what was claimed, with the technology of the time–but NASA itself tells us they can’t do it right now, with the technology we currently have.
We are constantly being played for fools.
There is a book titled, “Other Losses” by James Bacque that may interest you.
The question people should be asking, IMO, is whether or not Paul Craig Roberts has an agenda, and if so, what is it? Ken at RedefiningGod.com sees PCR as controlled opposition, and has done some excellent work uncovering evidence in this regard and connecting the dots. I personally give a lot of credence to his observations and analyses. The enemy of my enemy is NOT necessarily my friend.
Paul Craig Roberts – Globalist shill
http://redefininggod.com/category/paul-craig-roberts/
You can call anybody a shill if you want. You can make wild assumptions about a person and his/her work. You can skim the meanings of words, you can stretch hypotheses, you can credit yourself with wisdom far beyond mere mortals. But, just because you take hormones like Caitlynn Jenner, does this make you a woman? You say yes despite the fact each cell contains the same DNA that makes Jenner a man. So how do you call Jenner a Woman of the Year candidate despite these biological facts?
I’ve been over these illusions that espouse Roberts’ communistic leanings a scad of times, but I’ve also read dozens and dozens of his articles and I find NO taint as far as tarring and feathering him as a “collaborator or gatekeeper”, none whatsoever. I find Roberts a blatant Patriot, an America lover, an honest man, an immensely capable man. It’s peculiar when a person who carries neither a degree in a subject nor adequate self learning in the same subject tries to tar and feather a hugely accomplished individual. How do we know you are not a shill, a toady, a poltroon? Prove you are as patriotic as Roberts. As capable, as levelheaded.
I bet you can’t but you talk a moderately mediocre game and still demand some sort of respect because “people have rights, you know…..”
I’d like to leave a few tidbits for thought. The youtube vid “Cornel West say Obama and Blacks have been “Niggarized”” was published on June 22, 2015 by both Anna Fox and Featured Patriots:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0W3nXqui2EM
On June 23 I posted the vid on this blog and pointed out West’s comments about forgiveness beginning @3:11. He states “Forgiveness is not an utterance, it’s a process…”
http://memoryholeblog.com/2015/06/23/is-charleston-shooting-trojan-horse-for-internet-censorship/comment-page-1/#comments
We and others had all been laughing and/or incredulous at the “forgiveness” responses of the victims’ relatives.
Published on June 24 is this vid Friend of Charleston survivor recounts tragedy w/Andi who feeds his interviewee, Sylvia Johnson, her answers.
At minute 3:57 Andi tries to do damage control re the “premature forgiveness” issue and lo & behold, Sylvia says “To forgive is a process…”!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEa-cRHLaXw
My, my, is someone keeping current with what’s being said online?
At 5:43 Andi begins the part about Felicia Sander, saying, “I know when you talked to her you told me there was blood all over what she was wearing…”
The vid/interview Andi is referring to is this one, published on June 23:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4daE2QENdz8
At minute 3:40 Sylvia Johnson relates the story about Felicia to Andi, saying “When I got to talk with her, her entire dress was just dripped in blood and she said “that’s my son’s blood…”
Which begs the question: When and where would Sylvia Johnson have spoken with Felicia Sander, with the latter having blood all over her dress? That would have to have been directly after the shooting – How could that conversation have even happened?
Also, why has “the survivor,” “Polly Shepard”, who was supposed to live to “tell the tale” not been interviewed??
Tammie…thanks for the 2nd video, within the first 20 seconds, it’s sounds like another fabricated and contrived second hand account. “Something’s going on” when you hear gun fire? I guess so. Within the first 2 minutes, it’s such a laughable attempt to establish the crime through a second hand story, I can barely watch it. This should be called “Cooperizing the lie”… the lady says a dead man’s daughter “teared up a little”???? after hearing her father was just savagely murdered in church? Then the pastor’s daughter immediately talks about being strong for other people????? I can’t imagine that ever happening. I am starting to get angry at the lameness of this script. We deserve better acting, don’t we?
@dereklancer: I couldn’t believe the “teared up a little” line either! and yes, we do deserve better!!
The gallery has got to watch this second video, the story Anderson Cooper leads this woman through is just beyond belief. A mother lays in her son’s blood to play dead, then has a conversation with the killer, then hides with a six year old under a desk????!!!!!!!!! This video must go viral. Anyone that believes anything from CNN after this, you must have a lobotomy
Hearsay testimony like that of the “friend of witness” is notoriously unreliable, and generally inadmissible in court. The video below shows four purported friends of alleged victim Tywanza Sanders who do seemingly display some grief:
http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2015/06/20/charleston-church-shooting-tywanza-felicia-sanders-machado-erin-dnt.cnn
There is something interesting about this video. The victim, Tywanza, who allegedly approached the shooter, trying to reason with him, was last seen by the friends at an acting rehearsal for a play. The video ends with one friend recalling that Tywanza was so excited about the upcoming performance that he said that after the performance (See 2:23-2:33):
“I’m out, I’m ghost, I’m gone. Don’t call me, don’t text me, don’t Skype me. Forget my name, forget my life. He never said it like that before.”
Was the crisis acting performance what he was talking about? We know the victims families received over $3.2 million each. Strange last words to a friend in the context of this event which happened a few days later!
The third video is even more unbelievable than the second. This lady refers to the woman – by name – whom the gunmen spoke to and let go to tell the story in the second video. In the third video, the same woman is only refered to generically as a senior citizen, who was a grandmother who had one of her aunts – also killed. How many grandmothers have more than one living aunt? She referred to gunfire as the ringing of a loud noise… never heard gunfire described quite that way. This lady says people already planned to play dead?????? While people are being shot right and left, you make plans to play dead? I can just picture that conversation happening over gunfire and blood spurting. While playing dead the lady watches her son being killed? That does not sound like playing dead with you eyes open.
Anderson Cooper… nice job. These interviews are laughable. My BS meter is pegged beyond the red line!
The U.S. public is indeed gullible over 9/11. However, this is quite understandable. Contrary to the clip’s last comment and with all due respect to Sabrosky, 9/11 was not at all a Mossad operation. Even assuming that the Mossad organized the Twin Towers’ terrorist controlled demolition, put together the aerial cover-up with the hijacks blamed on Osama bin Laden, and engineered the various fraudulent official U.S. reports on these matters, its contribution to 9/11 was important, but small.
It bears remembering that the most formidable, most remarkable, most successful, most flawless, most alarming 9/11 subconspiracy is neither the barely satisfactory false flag not its mediocre cover-up, but the excellent enduring censorship thereof by just about all opinion-makers ostensibly opposed to neoconservatism, from the Russian mass media to the western anti-war intellectuals to the Japanese professors of civil engineering to the Iranian theocrats to the Australian labor unions to Hugo Chavez to Amnesty International to etc. Had only a few of them properly educated their subjects, members or supporters on 9/11’s obvious essence, 9/11 would have fallen flat.
That well over half the U.S. inhabitants doubt the official 9/11 superstition while 10 to 20% know that it was a false flag is very refreshing. It shows a trend to accept the world the way it is even though almost all opinion-makers have been consistently treating in unison the mythical attribution of 9/11 to Osama bin Laden’s hijackers as an axiom.
9/11 Truth has not disappeared. It never appeared to begin with. Even as more people keep waking up to it, the institutional 9/11 censorship shows no sign of loosening. As more people pay less attention to the trees of the Mossad and of other distractions and more to the forest of the masterfully organized obfuscation the 9/11 censorship demonstrates the existence of, they will naturally decrease their confidence in criminally incompetent or criminally hypocritical rulers and institutions. This historical paradigm shift will take some time, but will probably lead humanity out of its silly war system and into an era where joy, harmony and prosperity will become commodities.
Love,
Your statements just serve to verify Paul Craig Roberts’ conclusions.
| 9-11 + 5 Dancing Israelis ~ Arresting Cop Breaks Silence! | | truthaholics
https://truthaholics.wordpress.com/2011/09/25/9-11-5-dancing-israelis-cop-breaks-silence/
The 14 Israeli ‘Art Students’ Were Inside The WTC Towers Camping With Construction Passes
http://www.rense.com/general87/14_1.htm
These Israeli Mossad agents got on Israeli TV after they were released from US custody, and stated on public TV that they were there to document the event, which proves foreknowledge, and their behavior (dancing and high-fiving) show that they were celebrating a successful operation.
Only a silly, silly person cannot see the elephant in the living room.
at the 420 mark Anderson Cooper asks the cousin about where she is on foregiveness… pause it in several places after 420… the lady closes her eyes and tries not to smile, but the smile is there just the same. Then the lady says the daughter of the dead pastor says “we are gonna’ be fine”… How is it anyone says that after hearing about their dead father? This lady is a terrible liar, her story is not the least bit convincing. The acting is even worse than Sandy Hook. I want to meet the joker that wrote this script, it’s horrible. How does anyone believe anything Anderson Cooper is involved with?
this comment refers to Tammie’s second video, a must see!
I agree with you. The interviews are not believable, with questionable details. She’s definitely smiling. I also noticed that in both of them Sylvia Johnson initially says that the killer told the survivor, “we need to keep someone alive”. Not sure if that “we” means anything or not, but it sounds odd.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTwHcmN5eLo
Another victim’s son that does not cry about his dead mother. More “Cooperizing the Lie” by CNN. Cooper says people tweet him and are surprised by how many people want to talk about freshly murdered relatives. Notice how much time is spent “Cooperizing the victims, how no time was spent on the killer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kP41rruwMM
20 year’s after her brother’s murder by OJ Simpson, Kim Goldman still does not forgive him and talked about running over OJ with her car when she saw him in a parking lot. Watch Kim’s reaction to OJ’s not guilty verdict… this is what genuine grief looks like from a murder victim’s family. Contrast Kim’s reaction to her murdered relative, verses the grandchildren of a Charleston Church murder victim… smiling, laughing and wearing T-shirts that say hate won’t win. This is Alice and Wonderland…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLDyw4D_EA4
something happened to my video, it got replaced with Obama’s eulogy. How does that happen James?, I even played it once and it was there, then suddenly another Obama’s video replaces it. Strange
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kP41rruwMM
Now it’s back, even stranger
Indeed. Nothing that I can explain.
wish I had an editing tool to delete the double posting or correct a dumb typo that makes you look illiterate
hey derek, do you remember the cultish Obama campaign encouraging ppl to make the fascist “O” hand symbol that looks very close to this awkward hand pose? (it thankfully did not catch on…)
http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2008/08/obamas-sign-of-progress-and-jewish.html
(ps I did not read this page. Am directing the audience here to the graphic.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wnJ0yLrpYc
More “Alice in Wonderland” surreal TV coverage by CNN. This story gets more bizarre by the moment. Judge made a speech at the accused murderer’s bond hearing, which is really odd. Then refers to accused’s family as victims – even stranger. The accused is arraigned by video and not in person… more strangeness. One of the accused’s guards looks androgynous and about 15 years old; He/she looks incapable of being an effective mall security guard, let alone a mass murderer’s prison guard. The lawyer on the 3 way panel coverage wipes away non-excistent tears on one eye, but not the other… so he only cries from his left eye??? and the lady on the panel cries not. The lawyer wiped his eye on cue from the interviewer. The crying lawyer perks up to the point of laughter. This is the strangest story coverage I have ever seen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uNZy5AwOTA
ABC gets in on the Cooperization of another big lie… coverage of the church rally… these people wouldn’t be swinging together in unison (with perfectly choreographed alternating current of the rows of people) for nothing right? Give me a break. I feel a hair ball forming in my throat. My BS meter is pegged to 11.
Okay, here’s a weird story. This person who used to appear as a commentator on CNN, and his wife (a former newsreader) have some kind of motel confrontation with someone in New Mexico who is trying to rob them (they say), and a kind of strange story of a gunfight emerges. So I thought I would look up the man in the story who worked for CNN, and found he is one Chuck de Caro, born in 1950, a native of Providence, Rhode Island (right there I am wondering) — and he invented some form of psychological warfare (he’s heavily involved with spooks and NASA and all that, and hangs out in Los Alamos) — called SOFTWAR which (Wikipedia says) is “The hostile use of global visual media to shape another society’s will by changing its view of reality.”
I mean all you need is that advertisement to know he is up to no good. But apparently the military has paid him some of our hard-earned money.
I don’t know that his little shoot-out is of any interest, or his bimbo wife, or what have you. But just that there’s this kind of thing he’s doing that makes certain kinds of people feel he is useful kind of creeps me out.
Maybe Chuck de Caro is yet another fake? I wonder how old his Wikipedia entry is…ah the shimmering artifacts of desert mirages….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31xvyMVsckQ&index=3&list=PLj87TVrPmbMJbwGS0MEbFV5xEE3IV2fJe
Do people really want to know the truth about deep events in history? I peg it at about 27% of our population. I grabbed that number out of thin air. Look no further than my own slow road to 911 truth. It took six long years for me to arrive there. When I first heard the news, it was from the Weather Channel of all places. They were calling it terrorism before anyone could figure out it was not an accident (before the second crash and before buildings turned to dust). They mentioned a terror attack casually in passing and then made their five day forecast. Hmmm I thought, what terror attack? I changed channels and watched TV nearly non-stop for a day or two. My first question came when the first twin tower disintegrated and tuned to dust. It defied everything I knew from building four high rise buildings during the summer breaks from engineering school. When the second one turned to dust, I thought wow, that’s doubly strange and doesn’t make any sense. I didn’t even think for a second that the plane crashes had anything to do with it. I used to build the forms for columns. I know the massive steel that goes into them. I poured the concrete into those forms. I built a couple thousand of them, plus I have analyzed their design. Now these were turning to dust from a plane crash? That doesn’t look right. After day two of TV coverage, I shut myself off from the event without looking deeper. I made a subconscious pact with myself to not allow the event to change the way I lived.
When did I realize the country had devolved into a police state regardless of my unspoken pact? The first time I encountered a body scanner at Denver International Airport. I had not heard of them before. Before I knew what hit me I was standing inside a glass booth with my hands raised, like I was being held up at gunpoint. I was shocked to see myself naked on a computer screen. I was dazed from the event in a surreal “this did not just happen” way. As I stepped out of the booth, I was confronted by a pint sized, shaved headed man with a chip on his shoulders the size of a 747.
“Axe me if it’s okay to go” I thought ‘yeah, I would like to “axe you” you surly little prick’. I wanted to beat him so hard his ancestors felt the pain. I am a paying customer here, I deserve respect and to be treated politely. I suddenly felt like David Attenborough in the “papers please” train scene of ‘The Great Escape’. No that doesn’t quite cut it, the Nazis were far more polite than this little Bonaparte want-to-be. You could just tell that Little Napoleon had been picked last on every school sports team his whole life, now he was getting even by treating me like a slave to be abused at his tender mercy. Napoleon was so thirsty to demonstrate his power, it oozed out of his pores like noxious gas. I said “Come again?”… “Axe me if it’s okay to go”… I bit and tentatively said “Is is okay to go?”… “NO!”… He proceeded to frisk me like I was a criminal is right before handcuffing. So seeing me naked wasn’t enough; frisking me served no purpose other than to dominate me. Now I know how rape victims feel… violated without the nasty forced penetration.
This surreal encounter playing Simon Says with Napoleon made me never want to fly again. It’s kind of funny that I am not the least bit worried about a terror attack while flying, because the chances are so small of it happening on any given flight. But I dread flying because being molested by airport security happens every single time I fly. I heard one traveler comment “this is what we need to be safe so I am fine with it”. That comment just bored into my soul like a tungsten bit spun by a Black & Decker. I think the comment hurt more than my Napoleon playing Simon Says encounter. I thought to myself, this country is finished as a free state if this is what people believe.
The plane landed. Being in the last row and not being in any hurry, I waited for everyone to exit the aircraft. As I casually got up to leave, four men speaking some exotic dialect boarded the plane to clean it. There was no doubt they were not born in America. I thought ‘what security do these men pass every time they board a plane?’ I thought how easy it would be for them to plant a bomb or a gun because no one is watching them and no one gives the cleaners a second thought. My conclusion was that airline security is only as strong as the weakest link. If these men weren’t subjected to the same security as I am every single time they board, the whole security theater I go through is a sham. TSA is not about security, it’s about taking away freedom to travel unmolested and to train us to be submissive lemmings. Imagine the risk I pose compared to the cleaners who have zero natural allegiance to this country. If there was a highjacking on a flight I was on, no box cutter would stop me from sub-doing them with extreme aggression. After 911, a gun pointed at me would not stop me from using every last breath to stop the highjacking. Knowing I was going to die anyway, the only thing that would stop me is when my heart took it’s last beat. How many men in America feel the same way? I know there’s millions of us. But his country has too many geldings and not enough stallions. Where did all our Stallions go? I think most of them died and were buried with John Wayne. Imagine what John Wayne would do to Napoleon playing Simon Says and ordering him around just to satisfy a sadistic need to dominate?
The airlines have laid down and allowed this to happen as so has the traveling public. All because of the official lie that 19 pint sized Arabs used box cutters to defeat the greatest, most sophisticated air defense system in world history. How does anyone buy that story on face value? I heard one traveler say “we just got caught with our pants down that day” He seemed like a reasonably sharp guy, how in the hell would he believe that? It was almost like he said, “you know my son’s little league baseball team could beat the Yankees if we caught them on a really off day”.
I remember the excitement I used to have traveling by jet, it felt luxurious and special. That’s been replaced by anxiety and dread. There’s only one way to stop the molesting… subject the private aircraft passengers to the same hand rape we endure on the public side and it would be over tomorrow. I used to hang out with the Colorado Avalanche Hockey Team at Combs Gate in Denver. I never gushed over them, so my presence was tolerated. The food was far better than the main terminal, so I was there most days as a limo driver to the executive jet set. Imagine the hockey players’ reaction to being hand raped by Napoleon – the Simon Says Player – before every flight. He would be upside down in a trash can faster than a slap shot.
This is a fantastic essay, Derek. I think you should rework it a little and submit it to James as a prospective stand-alone post. Your thoughts on this matter are really valuable.
A suggestion: I would include the theme the libertarians at Lew Rockwell’s site have been saying all along: airplanes are private property, and air travelers are customers of the companies who own them. Thus, security of the hardware and the people inside it is not the responsibility of the state, any more than the the limo you used to drive and the clients you drove for were. The Korean grocers who sat in front of their stores displaying guns were the only ones who made it through the Rodney King riots in the angelic city, after all. Private property (and a business’ customers) is protected by its owners, in a rational world. It is in the interests of an airline to keep their planes, and the ticket buyers, safe. It is only when a totalitarian state steps in that the nightmare you describe eventuates.
“TSA is not about security, it’s about taking away freedom to travel unmolested and to train us to be submissive lemmings.”
Spot on, pure security theater:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/danielreed/2015/06/08/the-tsas-95-failure-rate-be-carefull-what-you-ask-for-when-demanding-that-congress-do-something/
Great story, Derek. I can relate. I’ve had to travel a lot and every time I go to the airport my blood pressure starts to rise. We know that it is obedience training. It has absolutely nothing to do with safety or security. I’d gladly get on board with no security at all. It’s a giant mindf*%k.
Your story about the foundations made me think of the Pentagon. I worked for several years in an engineering office. We always had technical journals and such lying around I read an article about the upgrades being done to that section that was alleged hit by a “plane”.
The drawings had so much oversized rebar and the concrete mix was so hot there were problems with getting the aggregate to pack properly around all that rebar. I had the same thing happen on another project for an ammunition magazine.
When they showed that hole and tried to say that an aluminum airliner drilled right through there, and several other rings, I just laughed. Anyone with an elementary understanding of physics would see that it is impossible.
Just like the other buildings. Steel, concrete, plastic, drywall, safes, file cabinets, toilets and people do not simply sublimate to dust, instantly. But, they did. Maybe its because I’ve worked with steel as a hobby all my life. When I saw that “spire” simply “dustify”, my jaw dropped.
I’ve worked in an office environment for many years. Fortunately for me, I also have manual skills. I’m not ignorant of materials and how they behave. What truly surprises me in these stories is that I’m not the only one in this situation. Surely the pilots, mechanics, demolition people, etc., know this is a huge lie.
So, back to your point, because of a huge lie we now get groped in order to fly. We get treated like criminals for purchasing tickets to be crammed into a little cylinder and flown to our destination. They’ve taken what used to be a mildly pleasant experience and turned it into a living hell.
Regarding the subject of dancing Mossad agents; would cold blooded agents of one of the most disciplined, highly trained organizations in the world be so sloppy as to throw a public dancefest as the towers fell? Seems worse than sloppy, even staged, so as to promote “the Jews did it” speculation. Just my two cents, but it sounds like a part was being played, if it even happened at all.
If it even happened at all? This was shown on the day of 9/11. Anyone can google or youtube it. The fbi held them for 71 days. 20/20 even reported it. This is not speculative.
Please post a link to a video of dancing Mossad agents on top of a white van. Also, please find me a Mossad agent who actually admits he is a Mossad agent. I have no doubt it was reported, Sandy Hook was reported too, and I don’t believe it happened as either.
Chuckling, chortling, and outright laughing? Patrick must feel fantastic! I can only achieve all three when watching “Return of the Pink Panther”. Shamefully, I must admit, a moderate hangover may be required.
It is staged no doubt but not by Israels enemies but by their hardliners whos agenda is to corrall the Diaspora jews. There are other examples such as with Barbara Lerner Spectre who states openly in a speach in Sweden that we jews are organizing multiculturalism in Europe and they are going to hate us for it but it is nevertheless necessary. Says a supporter of appartheid Israel without sensing the outrageousness. This provocative behaviour is of course deliberate. And there is no wish for mutual understanding. The emissaries of the appartheid state prescribe mixing for the rest of us and they want to be hated so they dont have to compromise about anything. I’d like to be wrong about this negative interpretation but i fear I’m right.
Peter Grafström, thank you for the enlightening post. I went and listened to Barbara Lerner Spectre for the first time and it’s frightening that the way she casually throws out that jews will be “resented” for being at the forefront of forced multiculturalism but, hey, that’s how Europe will be “saved.” It’s outrageous, especially given the history of the 20th century, that she’s willing to use Europeans, jews and non-jews, against each other to advance a foreign political power play. It’s an horrific old game.
The “agenda… to corrall the Diaspora jews” is a subject that needs greater exposure. Thanks, Peter, for bringing it to light here.
The phrase “appartheid Israel” is always good for a chuckle. Then I think about it and start chortling. If I keep it up, I can even find myself laughing out loud.
I’ll bet you didn’t know, Peter, but one in six Israeli citizens is an Arab, in possession of all the same rights as Jewish Israelis. They sit on the Knesset.
I’ll bet you didn’t know, Peter, that the so-called “Palestinians” have assured the world that any political entity they are awarded will be guaranteed Jew-free (as are most Arab countries). You’re looking for “apartheid” in all the wrong places.
Which makes your follow-on statement all the more pathetic and sad:
“The emissaries of the appartheid state prescribe mixing for the rest of us and they want to be hated so they dont have to compromise about anything. I’d like to be wrong about this negative interpretation but i fear I’m right.”
“so they dont have to compromise”? They gave away Sinai to make peace with Egypt. They gave Gaza to the PLO (which quickly lost it to Hamas), in the hopes of making peace with the intransigent Arabs. They gave the hard-won buffer strip carved out of southern Lebanon to Hezbollah (“Allah’s party”), for the same reason, only to find it, like Gaza, a new launching-pad for missile attacks on Israeli cities and villages.
The sheer ignorance of the history of the Israeli-Arab conflict I see routinely displayed on this site is deeply discouraging to me.
Jews do very evil things. The intentional destruction of European countries’ cultural realities is sickening–and I’ve written about it here many times–and if Jewish people are engineering it, it is a particularly despicable evil. But if you are correct that this particular woman is, as you say, “a supporter of appartheid Israel,” implying that she wants Israel’s Arab citizens stripped of their citizenship and removed to “homelands,” well, you had better produce some proof of such a weird, outlandish assertion. I know of no such movement in Israel–and I follow the political landscape there pretty closely.
You keep returning to Sinai, Patrick. I thought we agreed that the 1967 war was a successful provocation from Israel and that the insiders knew the arabs posed no threat. They just wanted to grab more land. After a successful aggression instigated by people of the Hitler jugend frame of mind but unlike the Israeli leader before the war who was a man of peace, the rest of the world didnt accept this dirty operation. So the aggressors bargained with part of the loot. Thieves do bargain so what?
I know there is a minority of arabs in the Knesset. But you assumed I didnt know because they arent discussed much in foreign media.
The one in six is because the arabs who would have been a much larger fraction were driven out of their original homeland. And the arabs didnt make it jewfree back then because they hadnt yet been subjected to the later atrocities. And many jews in Iraq were chased away via false flags by Israeli agents. You totally omit such aspects.
So then for you it isnt appartheid when IDF forces deliberately humiliate kids and kill them everynow and then because they dont do it to everybody. What word would you like to use then? Appartheid means separate treatment.
They are grinding them down. Sometimes by much larger numbers.
And the Hamas has been admitted to have been backed and to some extent controlled by Israel and the cia. I agree that sending those rockets is extremely stupid but who benefits – obviously the hardliners in Israel. I’m very suspicious about who is behind it. If there is no other way than to sacrifice their own people it’s very sad and I don’t really know – is it or isnt it possible for the Palestinians to achieve more by other means.
I dont know if its true that the jews are behind multiculturalism everywhere – it was pushed by the Fabians long ago. But Spectre makes that claim. I do know those who have the initiative want to polarize the situation so the Diaspora jews dont distance themselves from Israel. Otherwise it would have been easy to avoid acting provocatively and let someone else do the job.
If it is true that the jews are organizing it then it explains why the antiimmigration political parties are accussed of working for Israel. Because they dont talk about the things Spectre says, but only criticize the muslims. It looks like Israel would be telling Europe: if you are so soft on the arabs, then here you are, take a bunch. Make your own Gaza.
You commented
Which makes your follow-on statement all the more pathetic and sad:
“The emissaries of the appartheid state prescribe mixing for the rest of us and they want to be hated so they dont have to compromise about anything. I’d like to be wrong about this negative interpretation but i fear I’m right.”
end of your comment
Patrick this was intended to be the impression she would make on some people and I was insinuating that although she herself may not be aware of it this effect on some of the grassroot critics of Israel is wanted by the hardliners. So my negative interpretation is about that underlying motive and its not about the objectivity of the text inside quotes. I fully admit that I wasnt explaining myself clearly. I dont blame anyone for having difficulties in reading between the lines. It was a deliberately pompous formulation intended to be somewhat ironic.
I only keep returning to Sinai, Peter, because the fact that they were willing to give it away, after having developed luxury resorts there, is proof that they are indeed willing to compromise. You say “Thieves do bargain so what?” but that’s not the right way to think about it. This is not a case of a burglar stealing jewels, and bargaining them back. War cases land to change hands, has done throughout history. It is extremely rare for a country to give away its gains, so far as I can tell. Sweden gave Norway back to the Norwegians. Why? Britain gave India back to the Indians. Why?
You say “I know there is a minority of arabs in the Knesset,” but you don’t seem to comprehend how this contradicts your assertion that Israel practices a form of Apartheid. The Arab citizens if Israel are full citizens in every sense.
You say “one in six is because the arabs who would have been a much larger fraction were driven out of their original homeland.” First of all, it wasn’t “their original homeland”; they were immigrants, just like the Jews. Practically no one lived there in the 1870s, when Zionism began, and it was Jewish enterprise that attracted Arabs from surrounding lands, for jobs. But most importantly, no one was “driven out”; those who left did so because they were advised to by the Arabs opposed to Israel’s independence, and told them that they would probably be driven into the sea along with each and every Jew if they did not run away. Those who said NUTS TO THAT!, and remained, became full Israeli citizens. The rest became voluntary refugees.
You say ” And the arabs didnt make it jewfree back then because they hadnt yet been subjected to the later atrocities. And many jews in Iraq were chased away via false flags by Israeli agents. You totally omit such aspects.” I omit those “aspects” because what you say about them is a complete distortion of what happened. An equal number of Jews was driven out of all the Arab countries in response to Israel’s declaration of independence and the number of Arabs who voluntarily left Israel, so as not to be murdered inadvertently by their brethren, as the Jews were driven into the sea.
You say “So then for you it isnt appartheid when IDF forces deliberately humiliate kids and kill them everynow and then because they dont do it to everybody. What word would you like to use then?” “Reaction,” for a one word answer. “Fear of being murdered by terrorists, as long experience has taught them,” for a longer one.
AND “Appartheid” DOES NOT “mean separate treatment.” Apartheid meant that black migrants to the Union of South Africa were not granted citizenship, but were domiciled into desolate, worthless landscapes termed “homelands.” When they were in the Union of South Africa, they were foreigners, guest workers, with none of the rights of South African citizenship–because they were not citizens. No place else has ever had a similar arrangement–and Israel is almost exactly the opposite of it. From day one, their Arabs were granted full citizenship, and even have a hand in forming the government and making the laws.
You say “They are grinding them down. Sometimes by much larger numbers.” I say, if they would accept that Israel has a right to exist as a Jewish state, and stop trying to fulfill the pledge to drive every Jew into the sea, they would find life to be quite congenial, and Israel would be a very good neighbor.
You say “And the Hamas has been admitted to have been backed and to some extent controlled by Israel and the cia.” Actually, Israel CREATED Hamas, as a way of diluting the monopoly of power of the PLO. Bad idea.
The rest of what you say is not as foolish and does not reveal so much historical ignorance. In fact, I agree with most of it. I’m no fan of Israel, nor of plotters of the unfolding New World Order. I know Barry Chamish, after all.
Sweden gave it back according to the german Kaiser because Sweden had an impotent King. Called him sloppy dick.
Britain because they couldnt handle it and weren’t backed by their cousin Us. If you really want to make a point it would be that both for Indias emancipation and the Sinai case the strength of the Ussr might be the reason. At least implicitly – meaning that all colonies would look at the Ussr for inspiration, whatever you think about it.
And sure in past times conquest was accepted. But Israel came to late.
And life isnt fair not even to imperialists. But if they succeed in crushing Syria and Iran using the Us they might be able to grab a greater Israel. And perhaps get away with it. I cant predict the future.
I know Israel hopes to be able to be accepted for doing what the europeans did to the ‘indians’ and Hitler admired that too so we may see a similarity between zionism and nazism which has been pointed out by many. Nazism was like a mirror image of zionism, freely expressed admittedly.
I use the term appartheid freely I’m no lawyer. And apply it to the atrocities regularly reported. And I dont think the negative aspects are overemphasized.
I agree that long before Israel was blackmailed into existence as D Ben-Gs agents got N Rockefeller to get the votes from Latin America there was indeed not so many people there. But their roots were a lot closer than those of the jewish immigrants.
Admittedly back then most people believed that the jews originated in ME and they believed they belonged there somehow. They are not to be blamed for later discovering that they didnt have their roots there at all. That is kind of ironic and seems to suggest that jews ought to assimilate in the west and dump zionism which is a crazy christian invention going back to Cromwell. The khazars have a german Uhrmutter I read somewhere.
But updating to the actual establishment of Israel the best land was taken. And chasing them away by creating a threatening environment and afterwards blaming bad advice doesnt make the wrongs right. If the Israelis were honest they would invite them back to their original homes.
The official story sounds like the typical psyop and you omit the false flags so I dont trust things happened by themselves. I judge Israel by a long range of examples of playing dirty. And with that kind of behaviour its fair to anull any consequences of bad advice by arab leaders under such traumatic conditions. Try to make an analogy in a european setting. Or in the Us. Would you accept ethnic cleansing because of a similar reason, not knowing for sure whether it was manipulated or genuine? You spend lots of time debunking that kind of foul play otherwise but not in this case.
You accept the official version and see no evil. It would have been easy for the Israelis to invite them back but the Israelis murdered whole villages in particular where they seemed to be developed and left some who seemed backward. People were rightly frightened. And had there been an honest fibre in those colonizers they would have invited those who fled to come back. But no of course not. Land was too precious.
I’m not distorting anything at all. You omit the false flags. Period.
So Patrick when IDF soldiers are ordered to strike shit on the drawings of kids in a kindergarten, you call that an understandable reaction?
And I’m not judging the individual soldier here. Maybe I should but I see this as the consequence of evil leadership. Leadership emphasizing polarization hoping never to compromise.
The thing is you chase part of them out using a successful psyop or you allow ethnic cleansing because the people got bad advice and then you cynically say suit yourself dumb arab and then after the successful shrinking of the original population you treat the minority left better.
I wont discuss whether its acceptable that Israel is to be a Jewish state since I have never taken a stand about it. Is it really ok?
Some orthodox jews seem to be critical against the idea. But I pass on that issue.
What about jews dumping zionism and approach the people in the ME without any ideas about being the chosen ones and apologize for having been a pain in the ass in that part of the world and show sincere respect for the arabs and Iranians. Maybe they would find the congeniality you speak of.
If they try really hard and learn to be humble instead of arrogant and stop the psyops (which you never touch)and dirty tricks for many years. Expose themselves and tell the truth of all their ugly deads. Then if that doesnt help and they still are not accepted on equal terms, then it would be harder to blame them. But in that case the world community would be on their side.
I give you the last word. I dont have more energy left for the topic.
“And sure in past times conquest was accepted. But Israel came to late.”
Nope. Some things never change. America will not give California back to Mexico, which we stole fair and square, but Israel gave Sinai back to Egypt. Wars cause land to change hands; always have, always will. But it is EXTREMELY rare for a country to give back the gains it made, just to make the loser happy.
“But if they succeed in crushing Syria and Iran using the Us they might be able to grab a greater Israel.”
This is a ridiculous statement. Why did Israel give back the Southern Lebanon buffer zone, if Israel is all about territorial expansion? Why does Israel keep shrinking?
“I use the term appartheid freely I’m no lawyer. And apply it to the atrocities regularly reported.”
You can’t do that. It’s a technical term, carrying a connotation of a special form of evil. Very emotional. It simply does not apply to Israel in any way at all.
“Israel was blackmailed into existence”
That is stupid, Peter. The League of Nations had Mandated Britain to create a homeland for the Jews in what it called “Palestine,” which was today’s Israel, the West Bank, and Jordan. Britain dragged its feet, essentially refusing to fulfill its mandate. So the Jews, disgusted, finally declared their independence. By then the League of Nations no longer existed. “Blackmail”? What are you talking about? The Jews had been building Israel since the 1870s. The fact that it would be an independent nation had long been planned. This is not arcane, hidden knowledge.
“Admittedly back then most people believed that the jews originated in ME and they believed they belonged there somehow. They are not to be blamed for later discovering that they didnt have their roots there at all. ”
You sound like a loon. The Bible is quite clear on the history. You should read it some time.
“The khazars”? You believe that crap? Even the guy who posited it later admitted his theory was false, and retired to Israel.
“If the Israelis were honest they would invite them back to their original homes.”
Since their original homes were in Egypt, Syria, and Iraq, Israel should indeed have “invited” them to return to where they had come from.
“I judge Israel by a long range of examples of playing dirty. And with that kind of behaviour its fair to anull any consequences of bad advice by arab leaders under such traumatic conditions.”
You hold Israel to an impossibly high standard. All countries “play dirty.” Britain, or America, or the Vikings. Or Rome, Babylon, Assyria, Mohammed’s hoards, Genghis Kahn. Montezuma’s Mexico. China. Japan. Give me a damn break, Peter. Get real. History is harsh. Countries act in their own interests (except in the case of the formerly white ones in the 21st centuries, whose leaders all seem intent on flooding them with aliens from incompatible civilizations as fast as possible).