MH17By Prof. Jason Kissner

Four months after the vanishing of Malaysia Airlines flight 370, Malaysian Airlines flight 17 was brought down by a surface-to-air missile.

Western Mainstream Media (MSM) hastened–on the basis of very thin evidence joined with the refusal to even mention other evidence–to attribute blame to the “appropriate” party, which in the case of flight 17 happens to be Vladimir Putin.

[Image Credit: UK Guardian]

Careful observers of the mainstream media processes are well aware that this sort of thing is what we are to expect, and undoubtedly helps explain the very low level of trust people place in MSM institutions.

 Here, of course with the leave of figures such as Anderson Cooper and Barack Obama, we are going to do some of our own thinking about, and analysis of, certain key pieces of evidence.  In so doing, we should not be surprised if we arrive at conclusions different from that which our Ruling Class masters would have us believe.

 First, let’s present the currently prevailing theory as to what happened.  K.T. McFarland, national security analyst at Fox, presents “three possible scenarios” pertaining to the attribution of responsibility.

Of the three “possible” scenarios McFarland presents (and one wonders exactly what scenarios are supposed to be impossible), McFarland (and many others) appears to favor the prospect that pro-Russian rebel separatists are responsible.  The theory is that motive and opportunity coincide in that group better than they do with respect to other potential malfeasants.

 Maybe the separatists are responsible.  But the case is hardly closed, and plenty of evidence that people such as McFarland choose to ignore should be considered as objectively as possible.

First, similar to Malaysia Airlines flight 370, there is evidence that contact with Malaysia Airlines flight 17 was lost in advance of the wayward event. Next, and once more like flight 370, we have evidence that the pilot of Flight 17 actually diverted–purportedly on the basis of a vague sense of being “uncomfortable”–the craft into the dangerous warzone region where it was shot down.

Next, reflect that, on the same day, 55 planes flew over Donetsk just as flight 17 did and that these flight patterns have been in place for some time.

The Normal MH17 Flight Path vs. the Warzone flight path over Donesk Oblast on July 17th


And here is evidence reported by Zero Hedge that may be very important:

 “While there are various questions that have already emerged from what was supposed to be Ukraine’s “slam dunk” proof confirming Russian rebel involvement in today’s MH-17 tragedy, perhaps one just as gaping question emerges when one looks at what is clearly an outlier flight path in today’s final, and tragic, departure of the Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777.

 Perhaps the best visualization of what the issue is, comes from Vagelis Karmiros who has collated all the recent MH-17 flight paths as tracked by Flightaware and shows that while all ten most recent paths pass safely well south of the Donetsk region, and cross the zone above the Sea of Azov, it was only today’s tragic flight that passed straight overhead Donetsk.”

 The Karmiros evidence could of course be wrong, but can we prove that it is wrong now, and can we be 100% confident that what the MSM tells us is true?

 And, if it’s wrong, why hasn’t the Karmiros evidence been refuted?  The answer to that is that it’s probably because it hasn’t received any discussion.  Why not?

 Next, here are a few other curious tidbits.  The flight 17 crash shares an anniversary with the demise of TWA 800, which AT’s own Jack Cashill has compellingly argued was, in fact, brought down by a missile on July 17, 1996 and subsequently covered up by the US government.  And, the maiden flight of flight 17 occurred in 1997 on the date of, you guessed it, July 17.

[Moreover Russia’s last ruling monarch of the Romanov family Tsar Nicholas II, together with his wife Tsarina Alexandra and their five children Olga, Tatiana, Maria, Anastasia, and Alexei were executed on 17 July 1918. Subliminal message to Putin? No doubt it’s another “coincidence”]

 So “17s” are everywhere.  To be sure, though, each of the items in the last paragraph is easily ranged under the heading “coincidence.”

But before we do that, there is one more piece of evidence to consider.  Upon having done so, we will synthesize all of the evidence by thinking in terms of probabilities.

 There is evidence at YouTube that seems to indicate that CNN recently used footage of a helicopter downing in Syria and represented it as depicting the downing of a helicopter, by pro-Russian forces, in the Ukraine (go to 2:39 for a photo comparison).

Now to the probabilistic summary.

Reasoning with probabilities is notoriously tricky, so we have to proceed carefully.  Fortunately, a simple coin flip analogy can be employed.  If you flip a fair 50/50 coin twice, four possible sequences can occur, and each has an equal likelihood of occurring {HH, HT, TH, TT}.  The equal likelihood of the possible sequences flows from the standard supposition that the coin flips are independent of one another, which is simply to say that an H on flip 1 says nothing about whether flip 2 will produce an H or a T.

The analogy with MH 17 is as follows.  If five months ago (before the vanishing of MH 370) you had contemplated the likelihood that the next two major airline disasters to receive massive global coverage would each involve Malaysia Airlines, you would have been justified in concluding that the likelihood was very low indeed.  By analogy, it would be like specifying only an {H, H} sequence as the outcome ahead of time (a {T, T} sequence would represent the same airline as having been involved, but not Malaysia Airlines).

 Now what the Western mainstream media are implicitly arguing is that MH 370 and MH 17 have no real link and are only connected with massive airline disasters in recent months by chance; they’re saying that it could just as well have been any two flights so linked (by analogy, {H, H} or {H, T} or {T, H} or {T, T}).  If this argument is valid, nothing at all should be made at all of the fact that Malaysia Airlines was involved in both instances, since all possible sequences are accounted for and no sequence is much more likely than any other.

And yet, the evidence presented in this article suggests that MH 370 and MH 17 are linked in ways that might not be due to chance.  Both MH 370 and MH 17 appear to have lost communicative contact, and both appear to have veered off course on very unusual routes.  How many aircraft of other airlines have done so in recent months, never mind how many of the 55 aircraft over Donetsk did so on July 17?  How many aircraft other than MH 17 had their inaugural voyage on the date of July 17?

These considerations suggest that, in fact, in the cases of MH 370 and MH 17 we might not be dealing with a “fair coin.”

In turn, the following very reasonable question presents itself: was Malaysia Airlines in particular targeted on July 17, and, if so, what ragtag rebel would have even been in a position to do that (especially given the route alteration, if true), and, if so, how did they accomplish it?

 One suspects that the MSM will completely ignore these considerations and will likely coalesce, for several reasons, around an account that blames the episode on an accidental discharge that Putin can nonetheless be blamed for given the hostilities in the region.

However that may be, one thing is almost certainly true: the likelihood that Western MSM would in any way, shape, or form discuss evidence implicating U.S. aligned interests in the demise of MH 17 is virtually nil, no matter how compelling such evidence might be.

Dr. Jason Kissner is Associate Professor of Criminology at California State University. Dr. Kissner’s research on gangs and self-control has appeared in academic journals.  His current empirical research interests include active shootings.   You can reach him at This article initially appeared at Global Research.

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181 thought on “MH370 and MH17: A Criminological Inquiry”
  1. How about not getting too far ahead of ourselves? We first need to ask; is this a real plane crash site? There is a video (one of many) that shows a guy getting passports out of the trunk of his car to spread out on the ground. There is also a report that at least one soldier has said that the corpses were not “fresh.” What is really going on here?

    1. I’m seriously wondering if this entire event is staged, much the same way Sandy Hoax and Boston Smoke Bomb were — but this time with a bigger budget and an international cast and crew. has a number of articles out that lead me in that direction — especially the ones regarding the interviews with relatives, who have that similar lack of believability and similar crisis-actor qualities seen in so many of these other hoaxes. I think the first question people should be asking is “Is it even possible that this could have been staged?” Because when it comes right down to it, all of the “evidence” including flight manifests, passports, radar imagery, bodies on the ground, wreckage photos, etc. — ALL of it can be tampered with if enough money is provided. Think of the stakes of this particular false flag. This is way bigger than Sandy Hoax, and we saw what they got away with there. Just saying…

      1. Interesting point, though one that threatens to go off the deep end……

        Hard to say anything honest about the activities of our contemporary elites without; threatening to go off the deep end….

        I suppose we could ask, ‘Would it be easier or cheaper to fake it all or to slaughter 300 people?’
        Or we could ask, ‘What advantage would be gained by fakery over mass slaughter?’

        I’m voting ‘they’ really did slaughter those people over the Ukraine. Cheap, easy and with current Western populations; virtually without consequence.

        With Sandy Hook, the risks of really killing the Teachers/children out weighed the benefits.

      2. I’ve maintained that one advantage to be gained from fakery is the ability to control the reactions of the bereaved, whose paeans for sympathy and ‘action’ are used to manipulate the reluctant masses. On the flip side, ‘real’ survivors could go AWOL and contradict the script. Scrutinizing the survivors and their reactions sheds a lot of light on the veracity of the plot. Here’s one victim’s father’s letter to Putin which seems canned to me:

        I’m not taking any position at this point. I don’t know enough about the science of it all, and I’m not sure we’ll ever know which reports are ‘real’ or ‘fake.’ The timing is incredibly ‘coincidental,’ though. Hard to schedule a crisis better to obscure the bombing of babies in Gaza and the masses who protested Israel in France, England and other parts of Europe. Heck, the American government may even have thought it kismet that the nation-wide protest of illegal immigration coincided with this ‘attack.’

      3. The problem John Richardson is the site looks wrong, and the flashes we get of so-called bodies are far too pink to have survived the fire. It just looks stagey. As we know, wars kill people. But even the most powerful understand that civil murder can have long term repercussions, and dog a person for the rest of his life. They would prefer something that could never carry those possible even if remote penalties, such as what the Nuremberg criminals received for basically murdering their own citizens. No, in a world of Wag the Dog move-making going ‘way back, far better to stick to that tried-and-true method with its impunity a guarantee forever.

      4. musings have you ever read the transcripts of the Nuremberg trials? Talk about screaming ‘fake!’ The defense attorneys couldn’t have made it more obvious that they were purely show trials.

    2. Some of the passports have expired. One so-called passport (in plastic cover) reads on the back “gemeente Naarden” (i.e. municipality Naarden), a town southeast of Amsterdam. Neither the old Dutch passport, nor the later version (European Union) has anything printed on the back. In other words, it is NOT a passport. Besides, even if the plane was shot down, or had a bomb on board, none of the passports would look so nice. As far as the blood-drained corpses, they are silicone dummies with pop-eyes (Hollywood effects). In addition, the wreckage has also been neatly cut, etc. In other words, it has been staged. As we have seen with a lot of hoaxes in the US, they are poorly planned and executed.

      1. That is true. They appear to have been “punched” or a “tab” cut from them. This indicates that they are either expired or cancelled. Oddly, the names on the passports match the names on the passenger manifest. Think about that one for a while.

      2. Just a couple of abnormalities in a sea of abnormalities. The hole in the roof where a cadaver supposedly fell through is square. A perfect square cut out by a saw in a derelict building.

        The stack of passports is another hoot. Dutch passports are maroon in color and we should have seen more of those if the prop masters did a better job. One shows a young girl with the name Sophie van der Meer. There is a person with that name on the passenger list, but she is listed as Mrs.

        The passport with “gemeente NAARDEN” is odd too. Lower case “gemeente” and upper case “NAARDEN”. The municipality’s website shows Gemeente Naarden.

        One can apply for a passport in that municipality, but it certainly would have to be an official Dutch passport, not the strange one featured in the stack.

    3. Yeah. I’m seriously wondering if this entire event is staged, much the same way Sandy Hoax and Boston Smoke Bomb were — but this time with a bigger budget and an international cast and crew. NoDisinfo dot com has a number of articles out that lead me in that direction — especially the ones regarding the interviews with relatives, who have that similar lack of believability and similar crisis-actor qualities seen in so many of these other hoaxes. I think the first question people should be asking is “Is it even possible that this could have been staged?” Because when it comes right down to it, all of the “evidence” including flight manifests, passports, radar imagery, bodies on the ground, wreckage photos, etc. — ALL of it can be tampered with if enough money is provided. Think of the stakes of this particular false flag. This is way bigger than Sandy Hoax, and we saw what they got away with there. Just saying…

      1. Mangrove, yes. There is simply no way to “know”. We have pictures and we have narrative.

        One thing that leads me to believe that it actually happened is the Russian involvement. They are not a party to the NATO operation to encircle them. They do monitor their airspace.

        They say that it disappeared from their radar and show the data. I would have a hard time believing that they are in collusion on this. If no flight occurred I would suspect their approach would be different.

      2. So maybe it was a real plane, but flown by wire. Especially interesting is handy missing plane of exactly the same make and livery. It does not have to have contained passengers, nor to have fallen all that far. And it can have been tailed by Ukrainians who shot it down or helped it to go down, over the right spot. It functioned as bait for the masked people who can be a mix of rebels and decoys. The crash sites can also be multiple, including remote “crash” sites, in addition to the main one, and thus fully stageable as the BMB probably was at some other locations, and all brought together just exactly the way dramas are filmed all over the world, with scenes shot all over the place.

      3. The first, missing, plane, 370, had a fuel-load range that could take it to Diego Garcia. Some observers talked about this, but few theories had much to say about that fact’s potential explanatory value at the time.

        Well, if Washington took over the plane remotely, and flew it to Diego Garcia, no one could possibly know. It’s as secret as Area 51. They would have done it as the first part of a many-stage plot.

        Now, the last thing Putin wants is war, but Washington wants war–World War III, in fact–in the worst way. Putin has nothing to gain by bringing down an airliner in Eastern Ukraine, and if his Ukrainian friends somehow could have done this he would be very unhappy with them. That would be like spitting in Don Corleone’s face. But as Paul Craig Roberts has long argued, this whole Ukraine business has been created by the West, calculated to taunt Putin into war, which he has demonstrated superhuman restraint in resisting.

        So this theory can explain a lot, I think. The original Malaysian plane “crisis” was part of a long plot; they knew they’d need a plane to hit, to goad Russia into WWIII, so they stole it, hid it in the most secret American base in that part of the world, and then positioned it to shoot it down.

      4. Thanks for the thoughtful responses.

        @John Richardson, I too had thought about the question of “Which would be easier, to stage the event or to actually shoot down the plane”? Two points. One is that by staging it, they can control the situation much better to achieve the various results. And two, they wouldn’t have to worry about something going wrong and the missile missing its target, etc. So while I know they have no qualms about killing innocent people to achieve their goals, I also know that they want the operation to be a total success and that objective trumps everything. Plus, the horrific scene of the bodies is truly gruesome, and has shock value on the general public. Anyone suggesting they aren’t real bodies is easily cast into the conspiracy realm, but most likely just ignored.

        @lophatt, I know what you’re saying about how it would seem impossible that Russia would be in on the hoax. But, stranger things have happened. Prescott Bush funding the Nazis comes to mind. War is a racket. I can’t discount that possibility that even the political theater could be staged.

        @musings, I think your ideas are very interesting — an empty plane, actually shot down (though I don’t put it past the authorities to fabricate radar screens, etc.) and then the staging at more than one location for photographic control of the scenes.

        @patrick, that’s a very plausible theory that you presented — the idea of the “missing” MH370 being part of a larger plan of which MH17 was the conclusion.

        Of course, above all, the question of Who Benefits? is always a good one. And, from what I can see, Russia does NOT benefit, and the same ones pointing the finger at Russia are the same ones who potentially benefit and also happen to be the same ones we all know have lied over and over and over again.

      5. One of my theories matches Patrick’s. Diego Garcia is a perfect destination. In that scenario the Russians (as Musings said) wouldn’t know if it was a substitute. If cadavers were aboard it would certainly make first class more pleasant if the were ALL cadavers and it was flown remotely.

        The phony passports and the manifest is especially interesting. Someone had to match those. The passports are obviously not “real”. Of course, there may have been an actual flight with that passenger list and different passports. You have to ask yourself, why would they make a show of the passports? “See, passports”!

        Any of us who flies would know that passengers would need them. Why the need to show them?

    4. Dr. Tracy, is my comment stuck in limbo for some reason? Other postings are showing up but mine is still “awaiting moderation” after several hours. I posted a duplicate — same problem. In the past, my postings went through without moderation….

  2. I will not comment on professor Kissner’s criminological observations due to my well known tact, my not possessing any. However I have to note that it is not established that the MH 17 was shot down by a surface to air missile. A Ukraine warplane was following MH17 and it is conceivable that it shot down the plane with its own missiles. There may well be photos released in the future that determines the matter one way or another.

  3. It would be valuable to examine the stock price of Malaysian Airlines in connection with these two disasters–and not only the price (which, in fact, dropped 13% right after the announcement of MH017), but the “put” options placed before the disasters occurred (betting that the stock will go down), as well as the “buy” orders for the stock after its price dropped. The interests which would appear to profit from targeting Malaysian Airlines, not to mention engineering these disasters to put it out of business, would be investment bankers and their ilk.

    Those who read this blog will remember the put options placed against American and United Airlines stock before 9/11. There were similar indications of foreknowledge, based on buy-sell patterns of insurance stocks, in connection with Hurricane Katrina (which was an engineered failure of the levees). About two weeks before the Gulf oil disaster, Merrill Lynch sold 40% of its BP stock, making $250 million when the stock was at a “high,” if my memory serves me correctly.

  4. So much obfuscation, so little time…Of course the noise machine commonly known as the mass media is quite capable of misleading the public regarding the MH17 catastrophe. After all, they had the nerve of televising live the twin towers’ terrorist controlled demolition and explaining it away as the obvious result of aerial attacks by Osama bin Laden’s fanatics.

    The reverse truth is that anybody who wishes to understand MH17 ought to summarily discard as untrustworthy any source of information that has not affirmed the twin towers’ controlled demolition. This makes the investigation much simpler.

    The hard part, assuming the MH17 catastrophe is a staged event, will be to teach it. After all, even the resemblance of Building 7’s destruction to a controlled demolition has not galvanized the public into mistrusting most information providers.


  5. “A true coincidence reveals the lie. In the first instance, a Malaysian Airlines 777 is accidentally shot down by American war game forces in the Pacific, this cannot be admitted to and all that follows is a lie. In the second instance, CIA-backed clandestine forces intentionally down a passenger jet over eastern Ukraine, having primed Western populations to blame Russia over other actors or countries–the intent, to turn the public against Russia and generate all manner of pretexts for open Western-backed isolation/aggression against Russia. However, a great and most unforeseen coincidence occurs, the second ‘incident’ unintentionally mirrors the first in such emblematic similarities (i.e. same airline company and airplane type) as to become a flag connecting the two (through the near impossibility of chance and the near certainty of lies) and suggesting a web of misdirection, deception, and strategically murderous raisons d’État in a manner that can only be described as an accusatory actus Dei against the American dark state.”

    The above scenario, however absurd, was posted on a few hours after the incident and essentially mirrors remarks made by family members of passengers assumed to have been on disappeared flight MH370: ‘KUALA LUMPUR (AFP) – Relatives of missing MH370 passengers said the downing of a Malaysia Airlines jet in Ukraine was no mere coincidence, adding on Friday that it lends weight to their harsh criticism of the carrier.

    “Another (Malaysia Airlines) flight has gone down. Another 777… Far too much coincidence for the two situations to not be linked in some way,” Bajc said in an email to AFP.

    “How do we know a similar thing didn’t happen to MH370?” she said.’

    Yet, perhaps this too is simply another meaningless coincidence.

    1. Another coincidence that I find strange, the invasion of Gaza and the downing of the plane occurred nearly simultaneously. The invasion started 15 minutes after the plane went down.

      1. And, as I seem to recall, the news about both Gaza and Ukraine (which seemed more critical of the two) were virtually suspended when CNN turned its programming over to the story of MH370.

        If journalism were really practiced in this country, someone would try to suss out what that obsession was about – someone not on the margins the way we are, as gadflies and “conspiracy theorists.” But we are not living in healthy times, we are not living in a nation with sufficiency of checks and balances for dealing with these topics (if we ever were – but I suspect there was greatness once).

        So many of us guessed the “hunt the Boeing” game was a prelude to something else. There were those who imagined it would appear armed with nukes over an American city. Well, low level bioterror might suffice, over somewhere else which is said to be rebel-controlled, but doesn’t look like it. Another hoax, one with its very own rabbit holes leading so many possible places, but only one real one.

  6. How will we ever know the truth when all the factual evidence has been altered and combined with blatant disinfo? Every site I visited the last three days has opposing verdicts with cherry-picked “facts”.

    This (choose an adjective: tragic, scripted, false flag, double false flag, accidental, heinous) event divides humanity yet again. When all is said and done, with fingers pointing in all directions, the root cause bottom-line reason this event occurred is because there is a small group of humans who believe they can rule the world. They exist in all countries and continue to game the system they have created.

    And if you continue to heedlessly enjoy your world cup FIFA and Superbowls, your access to high speed uninterrupted internet, and the ability to take your family out to dinner at Olive Garden without fear, then realize that you are complicit in the matrix programming. To provide you the lifestyle you enjoy, some people simply have to die.

    Realize also that the supra-elite have multiple contingency plans. It matters little if the US collapses. In any of their planned scenarios, the creation of the NWO continues unabated.

    1. Old Man, alas you have painted an accurate picture. All we can do is “intelligent speculation”. It is all we have.

      There are a number of threads surrounding this crash. I try to note them all but reserve judgment until there is some other confirmation. This one does seem to have several issues reported by multiple sources.

      As above, the passports are extremely suspicious. The pilot deviating from his course is also difficult to explain. The Russian briefing by their military was interesting. They hinted at, and I know that they have a satellite system that identifies any missile launches, even small ones.

      There are multiple reports that some of the dead aren’t “fresh”. In other words, that there were cadavers on board (presumably in the baggage hold). There is quite a fuss about the “rebels” recovering the bodies and transporting them for examination. The Dutch are praising their efforts, the others are chastising them. It certainly looks as if they don’t want someone out of the loop to do the autopsies.

      I have speculated about the fighter plane shooting down the airliner. It is clear from the Russian data that there was indeed a Ukrainian fighter intercepting the airliner. The “rebels” don’t have any aircraft.

      It was also clear from the Russian photos (if the dates can be believed and I don’t see why not), that the Ukrainians moved batteries of “Buk” SAM’s into “rebel-held” territory on the day of the shoot down and removed them the day after.

      On another level it seems strange than Malaysia Airlines would have two planes involved in intrigues back to back. There is ample evidence for the ability to hijack planes remotely. In sorting this out it is imperative that the black boxes and other transmitted data is handled by someone not affiliated with the Western establishment.

      No matter what one thinks of this the use of it as a propaganda tool for war with Russia is disgusting. The NYT’s is outdoing itself (no small feat), in laying on the Russia hate with a trowel. A cursory analysis of any of this would show that they have nothing to gain by this.

      I am actually very curious about the bodies. How did they get those expired passports and the people’s names to match the passenger manifest? At least one of them has boarding pass stubs from a recent flight. They didn’t use that passport. They got the stubs from somewhere.

  7. Dinophile, I was startled by your comment on the “engineered failure of the levees’ in New Orleans. When we were in New Orleans, a guy took us around the previously flooded area in a cab, and shocked me when he said that the water didn’t overflow the levees. A levee was destroyed by a boat or barge hitting it. But it never occurred to me that this was intentional.

    Now that I think of it, there were gainers as well as losers in the disaster of Katrina. Are there any articles or books arguing the case for intention?

    1. I understood only that the levees failed. Katrina had, in fact, passed over the city–it was well out of there, and only a Category 3 hurricane at that point–so the flooding was not caused directly by the storm.

      I have never heard about a barge or boat hitting the levees. What I meant by “engineered failure” is more of “LIHOP” (Let It Happen On Purpose), because $450 million or so had been budgeted for refurbishing of the levees a year or two earlier, and George W. Bush had diverted those funds elsewhere, so the repairs were not made.

      I did a cursory review (i.e., googling!) of this general subject a few years ago and learned there is a strong correlation between the “puts” placed against stocks of companies which insure against flooding or storm damage in particular areas, and hurricane forecasts.

      1. “George W. Bush had diverted those funds elsewhere, so the repairs were not made.”

        This is false. Levee maintenance was under the the complete control of local agencies whose corruption made Chicago look like a vow of chastity and poverty. They were money laundries. A quick search turns up this, , which can easily lead to the whole sickening story. These sickening slugs that got on those committees did not give a fig for the possibility that their diverting those monies elsewhere would cause the destruction of the city.

        Still, I AM persuaded that the breaches (I think there were three) were caused by bombs, courtesy of fedgov. If you watched the Spike Lee miniseries, you were sickened when residence of the city walked across a bridge out of town and were forced back, to languish and suffer in a martial law nightmare. The federal robocops went door to door confiscating all firearms, and never returned them–even antique heirlooms. Boston can’t hold a candle to that atrocity.

        So, the fedguv most likely did it, directly, but the maintenance neglect was NOT Washington’s doing, and not the cause. It was local scumbags who diverted those funds, tempting fate, as corrupt, hack, politicos are want to do.

      2. I’m glad you’re back with us, dino, and hate to be contentious in the hour of your return, but that article makes no mention of the fact that the people responsible for maintaining the levees had spent decades acting as if it was the same thing as skimming the take from parking meters. They were a governmental branch of the mafia, in effect. So the article has no value. Everyone knew that, and this article is pristinely silent on the subject. Blame Bush.

        No one has ever accused me of being a fan of any member of the Bush dynasty, going back to Prescott, and while I don’t know the background of the reduction in federal welfare for that wretched rat’s nest, but I hope it was to try to force those despicable bureaucrats to stop stealing the money, by cutting off the supply of heroin, the cold turkey being the cure. That’s what I would have done, were I president. The only problem would have been, had the fedguv not blown up the levees, the refusal of the MSM to point out the perfidy of those scumbags, if the levees were to have broken because of their decades-long scam. Even a good president can’t force an evil MSM to tell the truth.

        That is to say, the article is a Bush hate-fest. Typical leftism. As bad as the same dreck from the right.

    2. Forgot to answer your question about any articles or books arguing the case for intention. Yes, I know of one: “The Shock Doctrine” by Naomi Klein. She does not say the disaster was engineered, but quotes developers crowing about the “opportunity” it presented. (This is what Condoleezza Rice said the day after 9/11, too.) Klein says the reconstruction money was used to “convert New Orleans schools into ‘charter schools,’ publicly funded institutions run by private entities according to their own rules”–and give people vouchers, in order to destroy the public school system. The 4,700 members of the teachers union were fired and a few younger teachers were rehired by the charters, at reduced salaries.

  8. Could not believe, and basically tried very hard not to look at live video of naked bodies in the first reports that were ‘edited’ to make them not as offensive.

    Since when are bodies ever allowable to be viewed in tragedies? Never!

    As another poster pointed out in a previous thread, it is very reminiscent of the Boston bombing dude whose pants were shredded to nothingness, yet he had no injuries.

    In the charred wreckage, bodies land with no clothes and no blood. Some reports say already decomposing bodies were on that plain. A few days later the bodies are actually removed from the sweltering heat, hmmm….

    1. I can think of no other incidence of the MSM ever showing bodies from a plane crash. You could find them but it would require going to deep dark recesses of the internet days or weeks later.
      CNN and Fox had these pics up the very same day and this was done simply to provoke an emotional response.

      1. Yes, imagine if it had simply been an accident – which CNN could not tell when it flashed those bodies. That’s a “tell”.

        CNN is not very subtle. When Malaysian Airlines MH370 was allegedly lost, it erred (for the purposes of trying to make the story look real) by having Richard Quest suddenly realize he’d flown with its co-pilot and suddenly bring out the video he’d shot of that experience (which was probably on the same simulator they were using during the show to demonstrate aspects of the search story, with another reporter). When you look at the number of planes in the air at any given moment, this coincidence seemed to me proof of foreknowledge of things, and thus a hoax.

        Currently, showing the passports indicates too the aspects of a hoax, but like Mohammed Atta’s they survived fire (as did the bottles of liquor the rebels allegedly found on board and were able to drink). The public only wants the action to move forward. They do not kick the tires or check the oil before going on the trip.

        Once the trip is underway and we are at war with Iran (wait for it!), then all the deaths of those who signed up because they believe the story will indeed be real, as will the tearful ceremonies honoring them or the neglect in veteran’s hospitals leading to scandals. The rolling disaster from the giant hoax machine will continue until the machine itself can be broken.

  9. The 2 videos I saw of the ground explosion did not show descending plane parts or a smoke trail. 1 video was being filmed before the fireball of the horizon…

    1. The explosion video did not show a plane. It could have been any of hundreds of explosions in the area as they’ve been shelling there for weeks.

      I posted another video of what appears to be an airliner falling with the right engine on fire. It is on another topic here, and the lead in is some rant from a guy in his car. If you have patience the clip eventually comes up.

      Of course, I have no way of knowing where it came from or if its related. It is interesting, though. How the person filming that would know where to look is puzzling as well.

      1. lophatt, I’d like someone who knows to comment on that footage. I am suspicious. Does jet fuel look like that when it explodes? It looks fake to me, too bright, too orange. Wouldn’t we be seeing black smoke, mostly? I have learned to believe nothing as these events are presented in on accelerated schedule, filled with features that are increasingly preposterous. I am no longer speculating: it is clear that they really are testing us all to see how obviously impossible an event has to be before the public notices.

  10. The U.S. is an empire and a military plutocracy, certainly no real democracy exists there, nor can it be allowed to. The imperial-piratical system in place in the U.S. post-Cold War cannot, nor does it seek, to outperform in kind the stabilist mercantile forms at which Germany and Japan excel (neither, of course, does it have the demographic reserves of a vigorously industrialized China or India), rather, it pursues through the force of unequaled military might (legacy of its unscathed position after WWII) to create and determine the very terms of order and even of existence on this Earth, but—and this key—not through the imposition/maintenance of a stable and expansive Pax Americana, but rather through the supposedly controlled disruptive yet creative potential of perpetual war throughout the unconcluded project of history.

  11. I think we got two fires burning here…

    I saw a crack in the great “Iron Dome” of the Israeli propaganda machine… I guess it’s encouraging to see that Americans are still somewhat shocked at innocent children being blown to bits on national TV. Even if it’s for five minutes or so… It was enough to get them to pull relatively honest reporters out of Gaza… Then put them back in a couple of days later… I’m sure those reporters won’t step out of line again though… It’s hard to work with a sniper scope zeroed in on the back of your head…

    Israel is committing Genocide, a War Crime, against the Palestinians. It’s undeniable to anyone who cares to see… There is a small hole in the American psyche right now… That could be the reason for the MH17 tragedy… Fill it with the best you got. If there’s a connection flush it out…

    It’s our chance to shape reality for a change. And Lord knows we don’t get that many chances these days… Will it make a difference, yes I think so. How much, that I don’t know but it’s worth a shot. We’ve got to try and break their strangle hold or it’s lights out.. And we won’t need to worry about the Palestinians because we will in the exact same spot.

    Prisoners in the world’s largest open air prison… And you know we’re almost there now…

    I’m writing this as Netanyahu is asking Brian Williams, “How would Americans feel if their cities were being bombed”.

    Netanyahu is playing for keeps…

    I grew up in the hood. If someone said something like that to me or anyone I cared about I’d take it as a threat. Because that is exactly what it is meant to be! And don’t apologize. There’s nothing to apologize for. Not in this case anyway… We’ll have plenty of time for that in the Afterlife…

    You’ve shredded so many False Flag Operations now, you know what it feels like, you know how it thinks, you understand it…

    Take care my talented friends,


  12. Professor Tracy, Would it be possible to get a thread going on the very bizarre Cassady Stay Houston Shooting non-event?

    Cassady was supposedly shot in her finger, which took off a chunk of her finger, and yet, days after she is interviewed, and all her fingers are completely fine- She supposedly had a skull fracture and doesn’t even have a bandage on her head?

    This entire thing is definitely right up this blog’s alley, and it is one of the most transparent false-flags in recent history.

    Furthermore the term “The Light and the Darkness” is used in every single recent false flag, and was again used by the involvees in this Houston event:

    That’s too coincidental.

    I hate to be off-topic on this thread, perhaps you could allow me to post threads as a guest poster?

    1. Great video.

      In order to fully take in and deeply appreciate the absolute madness of our situation. The Passion Play I call it. I find it helps to look at it from a religious, spiritual or metaphysical angle even if you don’t actually believe in those things. It’s a spiritual battle.

      War on Earth as it is in Heaven… The forces of light and dark, good and evil, yin and yang, positive/negative. A battle to shape reality. Because we aren’t the only ones experiencing it. Apparently there are some out of towners involved. Or so I’ve heard..

      Those words have power. Power over people.


    2. “Happiness can be found even in the darkest of times,” said Harry Potter … I just came across a happiness magazine, no kidding — website

      Example of what’s in it: The top 10 Happy Companies to work for… among these TopTenners were Pfizer (#1), KBR, Qualcomm, General Electric, based on “employee surveys.” The whole magazine is about working on your happiness; we must all subscribe! For as the world crashes around us and personal and collective disasters abound, we must all learn to accept and embrace these, celebrate our survivorship, and of course quickly post on Facebook to collect donations.

    3. Here, here. The Cassidy Stay psy-op reveals some of the most transparent crisis acting tells EVER. She makes Robbie Parker look believable in comparison. OK, I shouldn’t go quite that far, but she really does take the cake. Even non-conspiracy-minded people are scratching their heads (judging by comments I’ve seen on mainstream websites). FreeRadioRevolution, RedPillRevolution, and TeamWakeEmUp have also contributed outstanding videos exposing this mother of all frauds.

      Paulstal, love your work!

      1. All of the YouTubers you mention, mangrove, plus a few others, have received threats for posting material relating to the Cassidy Stay story. The threats are more than the usual trolls.

      2. Recynd77, yes and they’ve got videos up documenting the threats, which was smart to do. A few people have made comments on their videos that these are just intimidation tactics, because if they had been real, they wouldn’t have been made by anonymous posters on the internet, they would have been for real: in-the-flesh lawsuits and arrest warrants. One thing’s for sure, the slimebag culprits are getting desperate because, like you said, the threats are more than what we usually see.

    4. Paulstalservice, while the “Stay Strong” story may seem be off topic per se, I agree that this is the perfect forum to further explore the anomalies and actual absurdities of this story. Your observations in this video are noteworthy and I applaud your effort. We should no longer depend on You Tube as the primary site for this type of posting. The “Memory Hole Blog” and “Max Resistance” are now excellent publication pages for “independent researchers”. I’d be delighted to have more such sites recommended to me. Dr. Tracy is so unique as he has risked everything to become a voice in the truth movement. His credibility as an educator has not been easy for “them” to destroy and we should all promote this blog to anyone who has an open mind. I also think your videos on “Gifford, “Rodger”, “Nancy Lanza/Haddad” and many others are excellent and need to be seen by more folks.

      1. I don’t know where to post this. It’s odd because I was wondering in the last couple days where our daily dose was:

        So this one is alleged to have been committed by a ‘psychiatric patient’ at some ‘wellness center’ in a Philadelphia hospital.

        One has to wonder how the copy cat effect might influence people…perhaps this could be real.

        Or perhaps those who claim there is no racial context being portrayed in the hoaxes might realize TPTB really do read memoryhole…Darby is ‘inner city’ and therefore the likelihood is the perp is black or ‘of color,’ whether he’s ‘real’ or not.

  13. On RT, formerly Russia Today, a Russian media cite that is much more honest than the American media, it asks six questions ignored by the American media about the downed plane. Ron Paul was the first commenter on the thread, stating that this time he did not think that the US government would get away with killing 300 innocent people.

    Ron Paul is a libertarian, which I think is a crazy theory, and a racist who is against the Equal Rights Amendment. However, he is also an honest and courageous man who tells the truth about crucial events even when he has to stick his neck out to do it. I admire him for it even though he is ideologically a reactionary; it was him that commented on the RT blog, not Kucinich.

    That’s the way people are. Gramsci in his prison notebooks characterizes people as being made up of different strains of belief, some very modern, some inherited from millennia past. What is exhibited at any time depends on the political events and political leaders who elicit it. Ron Paul is a political leader who will get down in the dirt to prevent what he thinks, realistically, may lead to a nuclear war.
    I do not see this occurring as much on the left, where it should come from And I say this as a leftist, coming from the marxist tradition.

    Dino, in the 1927 flood in New Orleans, the city fathers did dynamite the levees, flooding the Black neighborhoods to save the rich White ones. The Black residents of the 9th ward in Katrina in 2005 state that they heard explosions.

    1. Interesting, about the 1927 event; and I was unaware residents heard bomb blasts in 2005.

      As to Malaysian Airlines, it appears it had an unusual insurance policy, which omitted a standard limitation on search-and-rescue costs. (There are other things in this article I don’t fully understand, though!):

  14. Just need to scour the market trade history for the Cabal selling these airliners short

    Also need to think about their financial position with regard to Russian oil. Highly likely that they sold their position in anticipation of sanctions. If they are smart, they have a shell company buying options at ridiculously low prices which who’ll be sold when sanctions are lifted

    It’s a ingenious money making merry go round

  15. More than 40% of Israel’s electric power comes from natural gas. Here is a comment copied from one of those ‘taboo’ sites I’m not supposed to admit to reading, which offers more evidence that the outbreak of fighting in the middle east was a pretext to get US forces into the region to stave off Russia’s drive to control the Mediterranean:

    “Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas met Jan. 23 with Russian President Vladimir Putin. The meeting came as a prerequisite to officially sign an investment agreement aiming to develop the Gaza offshore gas field in the Mediterranean Sea. It is only logical to assume that this step will raise the ire of Israel. The latter does not appreciate the role Russia plays in the region, especially since Israel has never come to an agreement with Russia.

    Read more:

    Remember, again, that Russia has an alliance with the very anti-Israel Golden Dawn party, which despite constant repression by the Samaras ‘junta’ as GD calls it is still ranked third place in Greece.

    There is also speculation that Malaysia is being targeted as some revenge for it’s condemnation of Israel for war crimes. This video is a bit windy at six minutes but adds onto that possibility that Malaysia’s flouting the IMF’s domination might factor in the motivation to involve Malaysian airlines in the whole drama:

    1. Interesting photo comparisons. Sure looks like it was mh370 to me, but since everything seems manipulated, was this photo placed on purpose? Call me suspicious of everything, although I do think it’s more likely, since the real culprits are so damned sloppy nowadays, that it really WAS mh370.

      Yeah, wreckage by or next to roads…. how convenient for placing, and for photo shoots. Who cares about the viewers who question these things? The media will set them straight.

      1. And indeed, if the Huffington Post story that the fuselage was cut with a saw (after the “crash”) can be proved, then one explanation is that this facilitated delivery of the pieces of the plane, some of which did not fit onto the particular flatbeds delivering the debris to the scene. It sounds so characteristic of the techniques in that part of the world, doesn’t it? – the delivery truck as a Procrustean bed, where that which does not fit must be sawn off. So practical, like cutting the Gordian knot. So imprecise yet workable – until someone is rude enough or un-vetted enough to pose embarrassing questions about when they brought in the saws for doing that.

  16. So, to sum up my view, MH17 was actually MH370. It wasn’t shot down with a missile (despite “evidence” and claims of such). The crash site was faked and debris and corpses were arranged accordingly for the most photographic shock value. The corpses could have been bodies from anywhere, brought onto the set — or, silicone corpses and plastic dummies, which seems more likely.

    Who benefits? On the surface, the west. Looking at the bigger picture though, it’s the NWO that benefits, which means that Putin could very well be in on the whole hoax. That would be the last thing most people would suspect, since he’s being put on the defensive by western accusations. But when was the last time you watched a professional wrestling match and believed it was for real? Putin has likely already made a deal with the devil (NWO), and is simply playing his role. And people love to pick a side. It’s not that simple, folks.

    1. Good thinking, mangrove. It does cross the mind that Putin must be in on it, because given the likelihood of hoax, then those who would be first on the scene would be Putin’s boys. Some kind of deal may already have gone forward. After all, Ukraine is just a conduit for the resources from Russia, and Europe desperately needs them. He has bargaining power and so does the West. Pro-wrestling indeed. And keeping the peasants rooting for the blues or the greens the way the Roman empire played it.

    2. The “official” consensus seems to be accidental missile attack, but I certainly won’t rule out your conclusion Mangrove. There are clearly lots of other facts that are missing. What a surprise.

      In this case, the truth would be a redacted double false flag. This explanation encompasses a majority of the evidence presented.

      What next?

  17. If mh17 is really mh370, that is about as ridiculous lame modus as the whitehouse press secretary basing our gov-ments claim that the Russian rebels shot it down from their YouTube video (intelligence (today))

  18. The notion that MH17 was actually MH 370 is absurd. The idea that the shootdown was fake, attested to by the governments of the world, is ridiculous. That it was an accident is unlikely. Such evidence as there is so far indicates that it was a false flag conducted by the US led Kiev regime to increase the West’s hostility to Russia.

    It did not get Europe to agree to the US sanctions, so the US has backed off, fortunately, stating Russia was not involved. The American media frenzy so far has been based on fraud or on nothing at all. Ron Paul is the only major American political figure with the balls to indicate that it was probably an American false flag. James has not printed my previous comment saying so.

    1. Very stern remarks, Mark. As though the means is impossible to use the “missing” plane, when in fact foreknowledge of the disappearance of the plane was evident in the association of Richard Quest with an otherwise nondescript co-pilot only two weeks before. Plenty of places to stow it while you pretend to look for it, while actually doing something else probably related to security in war preparations. Shoot-down from land or air, unmanned fly-by-wire — these are simply details. The propaganda never needs facts, and benefits greatly from forgetting what came before and wondering about it. Yes, they’re a bunch of thugs. But prudent thugs avoid killing civilians (unless they are Israel, but that kind of butchery is getting no applause during the summer sequel, Cast Lead II).

  19. Since the US intelligence came from a rebel YouTube video,,, can we include in our list of possibilities an ‘electric spark’ igniting fuel tank? Isn’t that what happens when planes crash over the US?

  20. Obama appears to be backing off his anti-Russian Cold War stance. If true, this is a wonderful development of an extremely dangerous situation, and the most obvious reason is that he couldn’t get western Europe to go along.

    But it is also the case that Russia may well have civilian and military pictures of mh17 being hit by a missile; they probably do, as the US may well have also. If mh17 was missiled by the Ukraine warplane tailing it, it would implicate not only Kiev, but the US which is orchestrating Kiev’s policy.

    The best use of such pictures is not to reveal them, but to blackmail Obama to stop the war on the threat of implicating Obama in the murder of 300 non-combatants, including a 150 Europeans. Since diplomacy is largely a form of blackmail, extortion and homicide between powers, a deal could be struck that ends the Ukranian war, resuming its role a bridge between the east and the west.

    This is speculative but conceivable, if one is willing to acknowledge that things might turn out well for a change.

    1. Sorry to burst your bubble of hope, Mark. Even though we have been granted a brief “timeout” from this accidental MH17 event, everything else continues unabated and you are advised to expect more to come.

      This is a defining moment for humanity. Do you want a higher dimensional existence for you and your children or do you want to be fully assimilated?

      The matrix programming is now poorly scripted and executed. The quality is so poor that it forces many to awaken and join those who have been resisting. The universe seeks balance.

      Kudos to those, like the owner of this blog, who continue to reach out to the masses. Many other key contributors have been noted in the comments above. Together, these people outline a choice.

      Taking the red pill means you have to go as deep as the rabbit hole goes. The cabal is going all out to continue their establishment of a NWO. At this point, they have no other choice.

      What we choose will determine our fate.

      1. Agreed. It is indeed time to all of us to choose. And choosing “hope” is not on the menu, unless you’re a stalwart denialist. After Sandy Hook, I had friends who sided with Senator Feinstein. They thought (and probably still think) that it was the right thing to do, the hopeful thing to do. They also voted for Obama. Twice. Hope ™ and Change ™. Choices matter. They’ve chosen their fate, and I will have no part of it.

  21. I’m wondering about the common thread of the Malaysian flights. I know that Malaysia has had credit problems and paying for their Boeing airplanes. Can you imagine that perhaps the Malaysian Government is in on this thing, a “favor” to the US, in lieu of paying their bills. I can see that happening. Regarding the plane crash in the Ukraine, the amount of debris looks pretty convincing to me, but maybe not the causualties? Again, the war mongers want to make war, a fight as long as it’s not on their land. Putin would be fine with this, so would the US.

  22. Maybe so, Bewise. The Malaysian premier is suspiciously close to US imperialism despite his people’s distance, and he has steered Malaysia into negotiating the US economic policy rather than China’s despite its unpopularity. There’s no question, it is quite odd that their planes are dropping like flies.

  23. Patrick, that’s essentially what I’m saying. I posted another video where the plane’s right engine is on fire. It is part of a guy’s rant and you have to sit through some of that to get to it, but it is interesting.

    I too don’t believe the other explosion is the plane at all. The video I’m talking about shows what appears to be an airliner with the right engine on fire. Air to air missiles are usually heat seeking as opposed to SAM’s which are generally not.

    Take a look. It purports to be taken on the same day. I can’t be sure, of course, but how many airliners with engines afire do we normally see?

  24. Lophat- That video has been identified as the shoot down of a Russian AN30, which happened in June, 2014. Note however, that there is no smoke trail following that plane as it plunges earthward. So the video of MH17 blowing up on the ground should not be discredited on the basis of no smoke trail.

    Eyewitnesses have said that they heard two explosions in the air, looked up, and saw a plane spiraling downward without one wing. “Things” were spilling out of it.

    It is interesting that these eyewitnesses do not describe seeing or hearing either a surface to air missile or an air to air one. Nor did they see a smoke trail from either. But they did hear two explosions, or as one man says “something that sounded like clapping”. One of the witnesses says he heard the sound of a fighter jet going by right afterward.

    If one looks closely at the video still of the body which fell through the roof, in the above video, one cannot see any blood on the bed clothes. The body, which was missing a leg, seems to have hit the bed after falling through both the roof and the ceiling. How could there be so little blood?

    A rebel commander also noted the lack of blood on the victims.

    In a bizzare twist, a pro-Russia commander in eastern Ukraine, named Igor Girkin, has stated that he felt the bodies near the crash site appeared to be dead for days:
    “A significant number of the bodies weren’t fresh,” suggesting that the bodies may have been tampered with as they were said to have been drained of blood and reeked of decomposition.

    Why drain out the blood? Because it is very helpful in determining the time of death, and causes an unmistakable purple red color on the skin several hours after death. All of this might be difficult to assess once the corpses had been sitting in the sun for several days, as they seem to have been.

    I think that MH17 was remotely piloted, filled with preserved corpses, and taken down with several onboard bombs, perhaps controlled by the fighter plane. One of these bombs would have been dedicated to destroying the autopilot mechanism, so it couldn’t be examined later. MH17 may well have been MH370 repurposed.

    1. Igor Girkin also made a very interesting post on a Russian social media site right after MH17 the was shot down. The post was quickly removed when people at the crash site confirmed it was a Malaysian Airline. Woops!

      Also, re the claims Jim Stone has unfortunately been peddling on MH17, which is being parroted across the internet, I would advise those interested to run a proper search for the most recent pictures of 9M-MRO and 9M-MRD on sites like As of January and February 2014, both aircraft have the “blanked out window”.


      Electronic Evidence Footprint:-

      F.A.O. James:-
      I hope you pick up on the above.

    2. Christo, I wouldn’t argue with you. I merely offered the video as I found it. I too am curious about the bodies. There are several reports of them being “drained of blood” and “not fresh”.

      I keep saying that I’m not at a point in this where I have something I’d defend. I’m just finding what I can, seeing if it makes sense, and mulling it over.

      In this one we at least have the Russian element. I don’t believe they had anything to gain by being involved. They showed what they claim is their radar and satellite information.

      I’m not overjoyed that the black boxes were sent to London. With a good analysis we should be able to determine if the plane were under the pilot’s control or not.

      I have ran all sorts of “crazy ideas” through my mind on this one. There is still the distinct possibility of it being linked to MH 370 somehow.

      I don’t think there are any impediments to discovering what happened here other than the control of information.

    1. Those pictures seem to be staged, if big things were falling from 33000 ft they would be sticking in the ground and not just laying on the grass…

    2. “Felled plane found sawed in half” at Huffington Post. Now when would that have happened? Maybe the observation that plane parts are only found by the roadside provides a bit of a clue: perhaps the parts in question in the fuselage would not fit on the truck that brought it to the site. But taking that view of the story would leave too much egg on too many official faces.

      1. That’s amusing. I remember that some of the “plane parts” found at the Pentagon allegedly had jungle vines imbedded in them. Those came from the crash site where they obtained them.

  25. So now we see who benefits. I just read that Obama is sending “advisors” to assist in rebuilding the Ukraine military. Also, isn’t coincidental that two Ukrainian fighter jets were just shot down? I wonder if it were the same two jets that followed the Malaysian airliner?

    1. Well, I guess it’s a wrap guys. We got rid of MH370 and the 2 fighter jets who did our bidding for us. What’s next?
      Gene Rosen and Elliot Rodger show up to help “clean” up the debris?

  26. I can only contribute a tiny piece of info: whatever happened to the people on that flight, I can be sure that two of them were real and boarded that (or a) plane and subsequently disappeared, listed as dead in the crash. They were two young men, the nephews of a real woman (Malaysian, slightly prominent) I know socially. She was subsequently flown into the country with other grieving next of kin.

    Some of these ff-events are total hoaxes (ie, zero actual deaths), I think… and some seem to involve real bloodshed. I suppose the former are more likely to occur on American soil, where the perps might have to deal with the repercussions of litigationally-sophisticated next-of-kin. In any case, it strikes me as unlikely that these two poor young men were spirited away to another location to start a strange new chapter in their lives. They are dead and we have to factor that into the analysis.

    1. 1) The Malaysian woman grieving for nephews was flown into what country?
      2) I know some ex-employees of the CIA, socially. I do not know a thing about what they did at work, except for what they are willing to tell me. They are actually more my husband’s friends, but they are my acquaintances. Knowing someone socially does not give necessarily privileged access to what their collateral kinfolk have got up to, especially if they belong to the elites.
      3) The sense that we know something is the case by commonsense often comes from the “FOFA” story – “friend of a friend” – where the illusion of being privy to an inside story is common, but not true.

      1. “Knowing someone socially does not give necessarily privileged access to what their collateral kinfolk have got up to, especially if they belong to the elites.”

        No, of course not. I only know that she’s under the impression that her nephews (I think they were in their teens) are dead. Anyway, no need to defend rigorously against a scrap of info that doesn’t function as *anyone’s* alibi. I’m merely saying that this particular false flag also features at least two dead people. I think it’s probably less than useful to go into these things with an inflexible sense of what (possibly) happened, in the form of a default template, before lots of info has been culled, right? This bit is my minute addition to the pile of info.

        Nothing I say is any more or less verifiable than what anyone else says in this thread, unfortunately. We’re all in the same boat. I would *definitely* be skeptical of my claim, if I were you, if anything really hinged on it… but I can’t see how anything does. MH17 is some kind of false flag meant to demonize Russia (not working thus far, I see) and it appears that it *must*, somehow, be related to MH370… but how? The debris field for MH17 looks staged, the passports seem almost deliberately poorly-styled… I’ve avoided looking at the corpse pix just yet.

        I must admit that I found the run of Gabby Giffords/ Aurora/ Sandy Hook/ Boston cluster of events easier (I think) to parse. Some recent ones (even the Elliot Rodger thing) strike me as muddled and even baffling (and the Cassidy Stay matter is just far too absurdly OTT to take in, properly). Super-subtle “Master Plans” or just too many different players, with diverging agendas and skill-levels, on the field at once…?

      2. I too have such acquaintances. Again, only as speculation, it would be a simple matter to have a grieving relative for “realism”. After all, if nobody can be found to shed tears how believable would it be?

        Don’t get me wrong. It isn’t that I don’t care about the victims. It is just that they are secondary to the story. I have always maintained that they have absolutely no compunction about killing. I’m sure some of them delight in it.

        The English papers are making a big fuss about the “lack of respect” shown the dead by the Ukrainians (and by extension, the Russians). I have never seen anything like the hate-pump that has been running on this. That alone is a smoking gun.

        There is a clip of a Ukrainian “rebel” holding a teddy bear and blessing himself. It was a genuine act of sadness and concern. Whenever we witness these productions we must remember that nothing gets shown without approval. If you see it, it is there for a reason.

        For us people with more or less normal sensibilities it is easy to overlook the rush these elites get from simply being able to pull off things like this with impunity. They are so powerful, and they control all the nodes to the point that they know they will never be brought to justice for any action.

        So, exposure may cause a minor interruption in the script, they aren’t really worried about it.

      3. “1) The Malaysian woman grieving for nephews was flown into what country?”

        The Netherlands, where the flight originated. I had to figure out a long Facebook comment thread with three languages (two of which were pidgins, the third Malay) in it. This particular family tragedy is all over media now, btw.

  27. The best journalist in the world (my nomination) is the great Pepe Escabar, who writes, at among other places, Asian Times. His current piece there argues that Russia is slowly putting the pieces together to refute the wild deceptions of the US media.

    His latest bombshell reveals that, according to Russia, the MH17 starboard engine suggests a shaped charge of an air-to-air missile. Not a ground based Buk. A Ukraine warplane was tailing the MH17 in a civilian air zone.

    As Loic has mentioned, US officials are now interposing the notion of ‘a defector from the Ukrainian military’ in the infowar. It is quite possible that as the facts are revealed, Obama and the US power system will suffer enormous blowback from the emerging credible narrative.

    1. Are you saying that the defector story sounds like Benghazi revisited? In order to save the image of the Ukrainians, you make up something, just as the attack on the US embassy was a botched something disguised with stories of an incendiary video? Whatever lie comes to hand?

  28. Here is a little more detail from the rebel commander Strelkov:

    Igor Strelkov: According to the information received from the people who collected the corpses, a large number of the corpses are “not fresh” – these are people who died a few days ago. I cannot vouch for complete accuracy of this information – of course, we will have to wait for conclusions from forensic specialists.
    – “Somebody of course must have been piloting this plane, which, to boot, would be impossible to leave. The theory that the plane was full of dead people is, of course, breathtaking; however, it does not seem to make sense.”
    Igor Strelkov: First of all, not all the people in the plane were dead prior to the fall.
    Second, a large quantity of medication, including blood serum and so forth, was found in the airplane, which is not characteristic of a regular airliner. It looks like there was some kind of special medical cargo on board.
    Third, I do not insist on anything (for now). It’s just that only moments ago I spoke with two individuals who personally gathered the corpses after the crash (both of them are from Shakhtersk and arrived at the scene less than half an hour after the catastrophe). I am writing exactly what they told me. They emphasized that a large number of the corpses were “completely bloodless” – it’s as if their blood clotted long before the catastrophe. They also remarked that there was an overwhelming putrid corpse stench, which was also noted by many locals – a smell like that could not have formed in half an hour in any weather, let alone in the cloudy, temperate weather we had yesterday.
    Fourth, while I am usually very suspicious of any “conspiracy theories” myself, but the 18 of our fighters that were poisoned with chemical weapons at their positions in Semyonovka, the executions of the militiamen’s family members and all other “small joys of Ukie patriots” have convinced me that the Ukrainian government is capable of any villainy.
    The pilots were, of course, perfectly alive – the entire cabin (and the front part is well preserved) was literally bathed in their blood.
    This is from:

    There is one eyewitness who claims to have seen a fighter plane shoot down the airliner. There is also an account of two parachutists having been seen at the site of the crash.

    1. Am I missing something? How would a plane be loaded with some live people and some corpses without the live ones running off screaming?!

      Also, are you contending, Christo, that that type of plane isn’t capable of being remotely piloted? Might it have been possible to install some special technology to allow it to have been…?

    2. No, the plane would not be impossible to leave. I have seen a demonstration on a PBS show of a passenger Boeing-type plane, fitted with crash dummies to study the effects of impact of the plane crashing into the side of a small hill in central Mexico. The team were American researchers, including government. The pilot and videographer (who set up some devices for real-time filming) were militarily trainer parachutists who, when the plane achieved a level cruising altitude, parachuted out. The ground controlled the rest of the flight into the crash location.

      So, indeed these things have been done to test the safety features of passenger aircraft, and not too long ago. A person working in such an operation could survive especially if the door was fitted in some way for easy exit. Of course you might want to eliminate any such evidence by removing the give-away part, like a specially equipped door. You also might want to go to the scene and make sure it looked right.

  29. But if you are going to crash the plane, Musings, why would you want live witnesses to it. And then again, the Black Boxes would record voices of pilots before the explosion. They could be faked, I suppose, but this is being done a world context, not a US context where American power can control events and actors.

    Still, conceivable, I suppose, and at this stage we would want to consider all possible alternatives.

      1. Again, “according to the official story”, the black boxes are in the UK undergoing analysis. They were originally to go to the Netherlands but, somehow, that plan changed.

        The “gist” of this (as I understand it), is that the Russians are “hinting” that the SU-25(?) shot it down with an air-to-air missile. Those are heat seeking and would strike an engine. They also have footage of the BUK system being moved the day of the event and removed immediately after.

        Reading between the lines, I would interpret that to mean that the BUK missile system (which is generally not heat seeking) is there for “cover”. In other words, they can say that the “rebels” had it and fired by mistake. They can’t say the “rebels” shot it down with an airplane. They don’t have any.

        So, the Ukrainian putsch government is blaming the “rebels” for this and saying they were operating under Russian direction. That is nonsense, in my opinion. Today they are claiming that the “rebels” shot down two fighter planes. The obvious implication is that they have the BUK’s and know how to use them.

        I am quite confident that if a genuine investigation were to happen they could quickly determine what shot it down. Whether we will ever know that is another matter.

        The nude bodies are suspicious. There are reports of severe decomposition. Outside of some sort of biological “weapon” it is hard to see what the point would be. Having a nude body right next to two clothed women is hard to explain. If the shot is real it appears that the nude body is in rigor.

        As usual, there are clues galore. Explanations are harder to find.

  30. Most of that last post was taken directly from the site, so I am just quoting it here. There seems to be significant evidence that there were many pre-dead people aboard the plane. How indeed there could also have been live people onboard I have no idea. The cargo hold is a possibility, though it would look odd if some of them ended up there after the crash.

    The commander Strelkov seems to be suggesting that the pilots were alive at the time of the shoot down. He could be wrong. However parachutists were seen, though one parachute was said to have not opened. I haven’t found anything more about this. It would make more sense for the plane to have been remotely piloted. But then again, this might have left evidence in the wreckage.

    Last I heard, the black boxes were being given to Malaysia Airlines for analysis.

    Many people outside of America know the truth about 911. I cannot believe that a false flag hoax of this magnitude will be tolerated in a world context. Let’s hope that all the evidence sees the light of day.

    1. No, not a positive development. But considering that Malaysia is a member of the British empire, er, Commonwealth, none too surprising (remember what countries participated in the “search” for MH370?). So the story is being sewn up, although Putin probably holds some high cards and can horse trade with them.

  31. Oh, dear, that’s how Obama et all figured on covering their butts. But even so, there might be recordings and photos that Russians may have that can reveal the partially legitimated truth.

    I can’t see the point of the dead bodies. Is the forensic investigation also in the hands of the British, or the West. That would cover up a lot.
    But the Ukranian Nazis like killing people; why would they bother?

    Global Research has an article which argues that the MH air organization would financially destroy it, privatize it against governmental finance. That would be a reason for the Malaysia airline for both planes.

    1. Mark, I don’t understand the bodies either. I must confess, when I first heard of this I immediately thought of MH 370. I can’t logically, however, see any point to that unless the whole thing was a total staged event.

      On the other hand, you look at the brand new, cancelled passports, etc., and the passenger manifest, how would anyone know? After all, that’s what they did for the “9-11 Movie”. They even had impossible phone calls, etc..

      The Dutch are in possession of the bodies and the British have the black boxes, what could go wrong? No one is paying any attention to the people living there (other than the Russians).

      I don’t have an opinion yet. It could go a number of different ways. All we have is what DOESN’T add up. We’ll never know about the bodies. They are key to understanding what happened here. If they are “fresh” how do we explain the passports? If they are not, how do we explain the official story?

      I don’t know if anyone has done any sleuth work on the passenger list. All we’ll ever see is what is authorized for release.

  32. Khodakovski, a federalist military leader, gave an interview to Reuters stating that he didn’t have any info as to whether the Feds had Buks or not. The Reuter reporter manipulated the interview, which was originally in Russian, to publicize that Khodakoski stated that, in fact they did. Fraudulently, which was naturally publicized among the US and their Kiev regime.

    I find this unfortunate. I’ve always found Reuters, a British AP type organ, better than the Americans. Apparently as the West decays, its truth institutions all head for the slime.

    The Kiev government collapsed, with the Nazi (Svoboda) party and the Fatherland party exiting the coalition. The implications of what this means is not yet clear, but apparently the rump parlement is putting up some resistance to funding the military and turning their gas and oil stuff over to Western investors.

    The Russian military is claiming that the US has pictures of the combat plane following MH17, and pictures as well of Ukraine soldiers handling Buks. This is also inflammatory because there would be no military reason for these Buks, since the feds don’t have any planes.

  33. Those following the “blanked out window” story that Jim Stone is peddling on his website, which has unfortunately gone viral across the internet, may want to take note of the following.

    Both MH17 and MH370 had the “blanked out window” (beside the flag), as can be proven through the links below. Readers seeking the truth as to who shot down MH17, may find the last two links of interest.

    MH17 (9M-MRD) – Crash Site
    Evidence of the “blanked out window” existed on 8 February 2014, whilst the aircraft was in Istanbul, Turkey.

    MH370 (9M-MRO) – Missing
    Evidence of the “blanked out window” existed on 4 January 2014, whilst the aircraft was in Melbourne, Australia.



  34. I find the dead people interesting. I don’t know if it’s accurate. As you say, they couldn’t “mix and match” in the cabin. There is a lot of fuss being made over the bodies. The British press is blaming Russia for a lack of respect and claiming that the “rebels” looted the corpses.

    If you ever need proof of what bought and sold tools the MSM are, this is it. Now we have a procession of hearses. They are trying to make the victims look “heroic”. No offense to the victims but the most “heroic” thing they did was fasten their seat belts.

    There will not be an honest report. The pathologists would certainly identify any bodies that had already “passed that great divide” prior to the crash. If they did that they would know that it would be discovered.

    Some have suggested that the bodies may have been deliberately infected with something. If there is an outbreak in the “break away” area of Ukraine we’ll know. They will spin that as being the “rebels” fault for mishandling the bodies.

    Someone either directed the pilot to deviate from the normal course or they took control. He would not do that on his own and the Russian plots show what appears to be him trying to get back on course.

    This is a pretty good compilation:

    Without more information it is not possible to know for certain how they did this. There is a piece in the link about a passenger sending a photo of the plane as he boarded. Note the number on the front landing gear cover. It is different from the wreck.

    We’ve all studied these things long enough to know that there are multiple ways to “make reality”. At the end of the day all we ever have are the images they release and their narrative. Whether they shot it down, blew it up, crashed it on purpose, etc.., the use that they intended it for is obvious.

    It is the Russian involvement that makes this more likely to be at least “semi-real”. There is too much danger in the Russians finding evidence that would destroy their well laid plans. The fact that they are throwing all caution to the wind in their Russia bashing speaks volumes.

  35. the collapse of the Ukraine government is conditioned by the catastrophic desertions of Ukrainian military, who are mostly conscripts. the blogger ‘Saker’ has translated two letters from military and interior ministers to the president stating the increasingly disastrous state of the military. This is probably the reason Obama announced sending American military into Ukraine.

    1. Mark, as I try to avoid politics, I’ll probably regret this, but here goes. The U.S. spent $5B (that we know of) instigating a coup in Ukraine. They did this because the elected president was not cooperating with their plan to have Ukraine join NATO and allow missiles aimed at Russia on its border.

      The guy they installed is a billionaire oligarch. They are calling him a “NAZI”, but he’s really a zionist Jew. There ARE a bunch of NAZI’s within a faction of his “government”.

      Anyway, they do possess a lot of older Soviet era weapons. The BUK’s among them. I have read that they have 27 of them. That in itself is not proof of anything. The “rebels” have zero. The “rebels” have no planes.

      The oligarchs were kicked out of Russia and have a particular hatred for them. President Porky is “perfect” for the job of picking a fight with Russia as Obongo’s mentor, Ziggy would dearly love to see.

      Into this mess we have the “incident”. It is certainly not by accident. The “how” of it is in question. I tend to give much more credence in this case to what the Russians are saying. They did not do this and had absolutely no reason to do it.

      I doubt that the information released, voluminous as it was, is ALL the information they have. They have capabilities they would rather not put on display, as we do.

      When looking at something like this I try to think, “what is the safest, easiest way to do this?”. Assuming that it is really the plane described, either an onboard bomb or the machine gunning prior to a missile hit would all but guarantee that it crashed in the desired location.

      It is also possible to take control remotely. It is also possible that this is actually the “missing” MH 370, or its lookalike from Tel Aviv.

      To me, either of those scenarios are “doable”. The ugly truth is that live passengers always present risks. Someone might live. If you don’t have live passengers it would almost certainly require remote control.

      It is entirely possible that some ATC monkey business was done. Why would they give him permission to head North when all other traffic was maintained on the Southerly route? If it were remotely controlled, they could certainly have “made the request” from the aircraft remotely. That could explain why the foreign ATC’s were removed from the tower.

      They immediately confiscated the tapes as well. All of those elements that led to it landing where it did, did not happen by accident.

    1. Skirt, that was a good article by Crieighton. As I keep saying, there are no “countries” anymore. They are just “blocks” or “zones”. Everything is engineered by these “elites” or “oligarchs”.

      As usual, I am always intrigued by these scams. While they appear different, in practice they are all similar. Just like examining evidence, in the absence of evidence one can rule out the unlikely or impossible.

      There are a number of pieces to this puzzle out there. One of the latest is the apparent involvement in the Ukraine putsch of surrounding countries airports. It is reported that Mossad and the Israelis are using unmarked or reflagged planes in operations against the “rebels” in Ukraine.

      Russia had to kick their oligarchs out in order to gain control of their economy. These creatures are all Zionists. They are nothing more than amazingly successful thieves and thugs.

      I have read the “Buk” story, the SU-25 version and the planted bomb version. It is possible to have two, or even three, of these be correct. I will say, just like on 9-11, they wouldn’t risk an operation on potential pilot error or other malfunction. In other words, the missiles could be cover for the bomb.

      There is good visual evidence from the Russians. It doesn’t capture the how, it does show locations and anomalies. Neither a SAM or an air-to-air missile would be likely to cause the plane to break up in the air. If that is what happened it is not likely to be caused by missiles.

      If the bodies fell from 33,000 ft. there would be frostbite. This is well known to those who have done experimental high-altitude jumps. Any body part uncovered must be surgically removed later. We have images of bodies that do not appear to suffer from frostbite. Of course, that’s all we have–images.

      With the Netherlands doing the forensic work and the UK doing the black boxes we will never get the truth. As some have said, it is possible that no such thing happened at all. Of course the Russian data argues against this.

      So here we have an event that can’t be used for its intended purpose in search of a plausible explanation. Just like we got no answers in the MH-370 saga, we will likely not get any here either.

      1. Lophatt, you wrote:

        “As usual, I am always intrigued by these scams. While they appear different, in practice they are all similar. Just like examining evidence, in the absence of evidence one can rule out the unlikely or impossible.”

        Here is another one. After Eric Holder visited Connecticut in November 2012 we had Sandy Hook. Eric Holder (these people never rest) paid a visit to his counterparts in Norway in early July. On July 24th, two days past the third anniversary of the massacre in around Oslo when 77 persons were killed, the whole country practically went into lockdown because terrorists are on their way to bomb the smithereens out of them – or something to that effect. They are coming from Syria, no mention of transportation mode.

        I got many good laughs over this one. Perhaps I should cry for my old country instead. All media, from the lowest rags to the highest national outlets are on board with scare tactics unheard of, as well as their counterparts throughout Europe. The latest announcement is that Syrian rebels will reach their destination on Monday July 28th. But just to be sure, this terror threat is considered permanent. There is a Patriot Act stored away somewhere over there and portions are slowly being revealed. They don’t want to hit the populace all at once with it, but cattle fenced in a stock yard comes to mind.

        And just to be safe, 600 harbors are on alert, so are airports with international flights and cruise ships. Cars traveling to and from Sweden (oh, those Swedes) will be searched at the border, and everyone else entering by car into the country will now need a passport or an ID. Police will carry weapons. The 1500 team youth soccer festival this weekend will be under intense scrutiny and so will the happy food festival. Not making this up.

        Many places have closed down such as the royal palace (the in house residents need another vacation), city hall and other important places. The prime minister cancelled her vacation. The man in the street interviewed believes the king and the government will keep them safe. Really? The king just left the building.

        Interesting too that not one a single media outlet has a comment section on this latest hoax. Can’t let those conspiracy nuts through.

        “Mr. Eric H. Holder Jr. is visiting Oslo in order to have meetings with Norway Minister of Justice Anders Amundsen in connection with Norway Governments release of Action Plans Against Radicalization and Violent Extremism.”

      2. lophatt, if MH17 was really MH370, the question is: how did it get there?

        It could have been flown, and shot down, I suppose, but much evidence says the debris field is artificial. The fact that it’s mostly near the road is quite telling.

        Then there’s the photograph at the bottom of the article Kathy links to, showing a gently positioned, very large piece of fuselage delicately balanced in a few saplings. That baby didn’t fall 33,000 feet.

        Also of interest is the fact that the cockpit was sawn in half. Too big for normal, concealed, transport?

        Perhaps Diego Garcia was used as a chop shop, and the evidence of a shoot-down was carted from there to Eastern Ukraine via ship, all the way to the shores of the Sea of Azov.

      3. Yes Anne, he has “become death”. Somewhere, (no one knows for certain) are LEGIONS of terrorist, just waiting to descend like the Mongol Hordes to devour us. But, by the grace of The Almighty (or some other lesser deity), we have Sir Eric.

        He preaches a message of submission. “I will protect you vassals. Don’t make me send another example of what awaits those who resist”. I think this has been done before, although on a much smaller scale.

        They are no longer after the livestock and the virgins, they want the whole deal. Rest assured, even in Norway, they met with these cretins and it is only a matter of timing. I’m sure you’re familiar with the name “Quisling”.

        When these emissaries of the death cult pay a visit, nothing good will follow. One can currently look to Southeastern Ukraine for an example of what happens when one resists.

        The world should be looking to Iceland as an example of what to do with these vermin.

      4. Lophatt, funny you should mention Iceland. A friend and I have discussed and researched to find the one remaining country with some resemblance of civility left. Iceland was the winner. They have the highest of longevity and the lowest of crime rates, no standing army either.

        The overall quality of living is amazing, universal health care, no ghettos and 99.99% (might as well be 100%) literacy with several languages spoken. When the situation called for it, they showed that they had backbone. Becoming a member of EU is not recommended.

      5. James, I waited a day for you to dig my comment out of the spam folder, and, tired of waiting, resigned myself to recompose it. The second version is a bit longer, and probably better, but that, too, has gone to the spam folder. This is really annoying.

        I endeavor only to comment when I believe my contribution will add something to the conversation, and when it is important, it is very frustrating to not have it heard, like being in a panel discussion and having your mic fail, so no one knows you even are talking.


    2. I am going to attempt to recall the points I made in the unposted comment, as the wait is growing long.

      It had to do with the Russian BBC video lophatt linked to, which is compelling evidence that the American puppets in Kiev shot MH17 down with fighter jets.

      My problem is with the debris field. Which brings up Kathy’s article. First, most of the debris seems to be near the road, and carefully placed.

      Next, look at that picture at the bottom of the article: it is a large piece of fuselage perched daintily in a group of saplings. It clearly did not fall 33,000 feet.

      Then consider the picture of the hovel with the small, square, hole in the roof and a person’s leg visible, sticking out of a pile of rubble covering a bed. Since there is no blood anywhere, if indeed a person crashed through that roof, he/she had to have been long dead before the event. But consider the lack of structural damage to that leg: does it look like it had crashed through a roof?

      I posited some days ago that MH370 could have been stolen by the Americans and flown by wire to Diego Garcia, where in complete secrecy it could have been prepared for its role in phase II of the operation, and became MH17. If this is what happened, though, MH17 need not have been flown and shot down. Diego Garcia could have been used as a chop shop, and the parts of the plane floated by ship all the way to the shores of the Sea of Azov, the broken-up plane put on trucks, and the stage carefully set in the fields lining that billionaire coal magnate/mayor’s road.

      Incidentally, this would explain why the cockpit was sawn in half: the whole thing wouldn’t fit inconspicuously on a normal truck, in case any peasants were watching at the docks, and along the way to the stage set.

      I don’t know how to reconcile the two things, the people who saw the two fighter jets hounding an airliner and the evidence on the ground which clearly did not fall from miles up in the air.

  36. The implication of the Creighton piece was that the MH17 crash was faked, and this drew a surprising amount of amens from the infowar commenters. Such non-occurrence false flags, the kind that James has specialized in, might be called Zombie false flags, since they involve the homicide of the undead.

    They were initiated by the bin Laden caper, killing bin Laden who had been reliably reported dead for a number of years. It was highly successful, giving Obama a 6 point bump in the polls, and may well have won him the Election. He has sponsored them since in the Sandy Hook Zombie false flag with the undead children, and in the Boston Marathon bombing, which James has been instrumental in deconstructing.

    However in the MH17 false flag, the evidence so far appears to suggest that the US-led Kiev regime conducted it. It was used to conduct a highly successful smear of Russia and Putin, lies piled on lies. The prevalence in the internet of it being a Zombie false flag may result from the fear of being Unpatriotic in conceiving USA power being guilty of mass murder. It probably is in this case, as it has been so often.

  37. uh, oh, as prof chossudosky and Paul Craig Roberts are suggesting, Obama is now considering a policy that leads to war with Russia. This is partially due to the false flag of the US-Kiev regime murdering 300 people. it is necessary to cover up the evidence that might come out with the chaos of war, just as the 9/11-anthrax homicides were covered up by war.

    I don’t know what Russia can do; it only takes one side to start a war.

    1. Mark, war with Russia is the WHOLE point of this little exercise in Ukraine and the alleged plane crash. Brezinski is Obongo’s mentor. Ziggy has a nasty obsession. He’s been screeching “Evil Empire” like a deranged parrot for decades.

      Obongo has no agenda. He’s an empty suit. NATO, which is the ‘muscle’ of the Western Oligarchy, has been attempting to encircle and isolate Russia for some time. Ukraine was to be the final puzzle piece.

      Putin is not stupid. The fact that the entire screeching horde, laughably known as “the media” is screaming for war is telling. Who knows, maybe they think the “terrorist” thing has lost its luster.

      They are playing with fire. They are obviously mad. It is one thing to randomly kill defenseless “brown people” for fun and profit, it is quite another to take on a country with the very real ability to turn you into smoking glass.

      If we are “lucky”, a new “cold war” may be the objective. If not, we may be living on borrowed time. Does anyone pause to reflect on just who gave these psychopaths the authority to do these things in our name?

  38. Russia and US working together to bring a new fake cold war to feed the globalist controlled military industrial complex? How many staged pictures does it take to convince one that this plane was never even in the air?

    1. Indeed. I’m posting this for visual effect only. The room where the body fell through the roof has an awful lot of debris for such a small opening. The man holding his head down in the window is allegedly the owner of this shack. He is 26 years old and it says the body is still behind him in the room when the photo was taken the day after the “crash”.

      1. The photos are striking, as is the headline “Catastrophe from the Heavens”. It’s hard to imagine that he would leave the body there and have his picture taken the next day.

        It’s hard to say about the debris. I think its a plaster ceiling. Pretty dismal digs all around. What we can see looks decomposed or frostbitten.

        Some of the stories I’ve read said that the villagers were crying and demanding that officials do something about the bodies. I don’t blame them. Some of the miners picked them up and moved them.

        The Western press was making a big todo about that. They claimed that they looted the bodies and had no respect for the remains. Just more demonization. It’s pathetic.

        I keep trying to put myself in their position. NATO instigates a putsch and now they have bombs, missiles and bodies falling on their heads. They are simply trying to live their lives like most people.

        It is only going to get worse when winter comes. The installed oligarch will either let them starve and freeze or he’ll have them all annihilated. Their best move is to get to Russia, if they can. If this settles down, fine. If it doesn’t there’ll be nothing left to return to.

  39. The US is currently in the process of naming Ukraine as a ‘non-Nato ally,’ allowing US and such EU countries as it can muster, to intervene militarily in Ukraine. This despite American people disapproval, Obama now being disapproved over his foreign policy by about 20 points. The media lies are increasingly transparent, relying on war hysteria to implant them.

    The operative aggression of American power is Proclaimed in the media as Russian aggression. It is Weapons of Mass Destruction all over again, but now much more dangerous to the world’s people.

  40. wow, way to go, Lophott, on finding that video. However, I still think Obama wants to avoid a hot war if he can, and use a Cold War to disconnect Russia from west Europe. The danger is that he can’t, that one of his series of provocations will light the fuse.

    However Paul Craig Roberts seems to agree with you. Maybe Patrick as well.

    1. Mark, as a point of clarification, I don’t think “Obama” has an agenda. As long as they pay him and send him on expensive vacations and feed his narcissism he’s completely non-plused.

      It is difficult to predict what the oligarchs have in mind. They may think they’ve sucked all of the available wealth from this end of the melon and are planning to start on the other end. Now that other banking schemes are being put in place to supplant the Rothschild-Fed, (although they may be involved in its alternative as well), they may just be planning to slam the door on the whole thing.

      On the other hand, a prolonged “cold war” is handy for keeping all those available resources tied up in their interests. I’m not one for politics, I gave them up a long time ago. I can assure you that the public face of “politics” are not the ones who make decisions.

      So Obongo is off mincing and keening while Rome burns.

      1. Just feel compelled to add a little more to consider:

        While I’m not entirely in agreement with some of the analysis here, I thought this might be instructive for those who harbor any lingering doubts as to the importance that these Oligarchs place on the “magic” of numbers.

        It is also instructive to consider how the “media” works in concert with the Controllers. They say that “timing is everything”. I tend to agree, it is especially true when you have total control of the timing of things.

      2. I hope I’m not “hogging” this but I’ve found these to be thought provoking and the talents of those here would be helpful.

        I’ve said often that I seldom find information that I totally agree with, but there are a lot of items in this that deserve a hearing. The comments are good as well.

        I too wondered about all the shrapnel shown. It is also instructive that the U.S. has surveillance ships in the Black Sea that would certainly be aware of any missile firings.

        Looking at the video of the “Buk”, does anyone doubt that such a firing would be observed from the ground? Apparently there are reports of wreckage being trucked to the scene as well.

      3. “Apparently there are reports of wreckage being trucked to the scene as well.”

        That’s what I’ve been guessing at, lophatt, in the comments that zap themselves into the spam folder. What if MH17 is MH370; the US hijacked 370, flew it by wire to Diego Garcia, chopped it up, shipped it to the Sea of Azov, transferred it to trucks, and carefully set the stage in fields all along the billionaire coal magnate/mayor’s long and winding road?

      4. Seeing as how this idea finally escaped spam-folder Hell, I’ll add a few of the other thoughts I’ve been waiting a day to see light.

        lophatt linked to a video by BBCRussia that constitutes good evidence that eye witnesses, peasants, saw two Ukrainian fighter jets hounding an airliner. This means something, as does the notion that the airliner was 300 miles north of where it should have been.

        Next, Kathy linked to an article, the bottom photograph of which shows a large piece of fuselage perched daintily which in a grove of saplings–it DEFINITELY did not get there after having plunged from miles up above. Someone had to have placed it there, very carefully.

        Finally, the human leg jutting out of a pile of rubble in a hovel straight out of the movie Borat; it’s directly under a small, square, hole in the roof. Presumably the leg is attached to a person who plunged 33,000 feet and crashed through the roof. The fact that there is no blood indicates (if it happened) the person saw long since dead. But it is entirely undamaged! How did the whole person smash through the roof, creating a (square!) hole, yet not tear up all the flesh, much less not snap bones?

        I don’t know how all this happened, but I do know that no one went to a real crash site and sawed the cockpit of a newly fallen plane in half, just for the fun of it. But a full-sized one would have been an “oversized load” when unloaded from a ship and carted to the stage-set; cut in half, it would fit under a tarp nicely and drawn no attention as it made its way to the closed set.

        Just speculating.

      5. Well, James, I guess I was testing my luck just now. When that small summary went through, I thought I’d write another comment adding the rest of my thoughts in the two still languishing in spam-folder Hell. I even added some new possibilities.

        But THAT one joined its brothers in the spam folder, too! What is going on here?

      6. Patrick, have you tried posting under a different name? Maybe “copy/paste” your pieces first (just in case)? So far, mine seem to be working.

        That’s an interesting idea, trucking the pieces in. It could also be a combination if you will. There is a photo of a large fuselage section that looks virtually untouched. Pretty slick after a fall of 33,000 feet.

        Of course another explanation is the villagers getting rid of pieces that landed in their fields. I also wonder about the “establishment shots”. Those like the t-shirts and personal items that look like they’re brand new. Outside of the emotional angle what is their purpose?

        They take video of cancelled, unscathed passports. It’s like “see, here’s the proof that THESE people were on the plane”. It proves nothing. There is also a rather large disparity in the number of bodies recovered. Where did they go?

        There is a substantial debris field. There wasn’t much of a fire. It DOES look like a crash site. Some of the pieces are shiny and unburned.

        I keep coming back to MH 370. There was a purpose to that. A journalist (I can’t remember who this morning) had a series of articles on another 777 parked in Tel Aviv with Malaysia Airlines markings (save the tail). He had pictures of it on the tarmac. The registration traced back to one of those CIA outfits that makes planes disappear. Daniel Hopsinger (sp?) writes about them all the time.

        During the Pentagon ruse one of the plane pieces allegedly recovered had jungle vines from Central America clinging to the piece. That is where they obtained that bit of “evidence”.

        I could run “what if” scenarios ad infinitim on this one. Here’s what I think I know:

        The locals say a fighter shot it down. Nobody seems to have seen the “BUK” SAM. The Russians have Ifrad images of a launch, however. Some of the bodies are clothed, others not. Some appear decomposed or frostbitten. Most of the debris field consists of VERY small, burned fragments. In the mix are large, shiny, unburnt pieces. It looks as if they were “placed” there.

        It is possible for a plane to explode in mid-air. I don’t think the bulk of it would land in that way, however. It is possible to have a hole open up and bodies be sucked out. None of this would explain the pristine items that we’ve been shown.

        A simple analysis of part numbers from critical wear parts would definitively prove where the parts came from. It is standard in all crash investigations (except the ones we’re not supposed to understand).

        Finally, does anyone else find it strange that the other African crash is still under investigation as to cause? In this one they “knew” the cause immediately. That alone is highly suspicious.

  41. While Obama may not have MADE the agenda, Lophatt, (it was in place before the Orange and other Revolutions) he is FOLLOWING an agenda. Just as Kennedy followed an agenda for the Cuba invasion that was put in place by the Ike administration.

    Porobiy, the co-founder of the Ukraine Nazi Svoboda party, was a US coordinated leader of the Orange revolution, the sniper false flag that initated the current coup, and now helps control the Kiev military. It illustrates continuity, the 5 billion dollars the Nuland bragged about being part of a US agenda.

    How these agenda’s are laid out and by who precisely, we don’t know. But Obama like everybody else knows what happened to Kennedy when he didn’t follow them.

  42. The closure of the American embassy in Libya and the retreat of American diplomats dramatize how rapidly American imperialism is decaying. Only a couple of years ago it was instrumental in conducting Regime Change, and now there is nothing but chaos in Libya. The power implications are not lost on all the other powers and powerful watching US decline.

    The Regime Change in Ukraine tend to effect over 40 million people, not the 6 million of Libya. No matter how despotic the Ukrainian Nazis and gangster oligarchs are, there is no way they can subjugate over twenty million Russian-cultured Ukrainians for very long. It’s all they can do to cover up the false flag downing of MH17, and they may not do even that.

    It increasingly appears that Obama made an historic mistake in Regime Change in Ukraine, comparable to the Regime Change of Bush Jr of Regime Change in Iraq. The deceit of the American media about Russia equals and perhaps even exceeds the Weapons of Mass Destruction of the previous invasion, and it is unlikely that the Europeans are going to stick with the American story for long.

    Meanwhile the Ukraine economy is a basket case, and the impoverishment of the Ukrainian people under the oligarch-Nazi regime appears inevitable. Along with the chaos that is descending on Ukraine. Will Obama institute war against Russia to maintain US control? This is crazy, but historically much crazier things have happened when the powerful rely entirely on violence and delusion to maintain their power.

  43. Patrick, to be honest, when I first heard of this I immediately thought of MH 370. There is also another 777, painted with Malaysia Airlines colors that was photographed parked on a spur at Ben Gurian Airport.

    Christopher Bollyn did a piece on that and it was “owned” by one of those CIA front outfits that make plane ownership “disappear”.

    I would not argue with you on this one. I simply don’t know. There are lots of conflicting reports that are fairly credible, like this one:

    In this scenario, the plane was riddled by gun fire and possibly a missile as well. One should remember that the Ukraine putsch government is doing everything they can to keep the Dutch investigators out of the area.

    Just like with the other hoaxes, serial numbers on parts could clear that up pretty easily.

    This whole thing is just too “handy”. As usual, we have images and narrative. We have “interested” parties in charge of the evidence. I wondered if anyone had researched the passenger list. Not that it would be definitive. The shiny new passports with the cancellation punches appear to match the passenger manifest. How’s that?

    Of course, if they landed MH 370 at Diego Garcia there is the problem of the passengers. By the way, they are “missing” a few passengers here.

    So, we have blown up on the ground, blown up in the air, machine gunned, shot down by air-to-air missile, or shot down by “BUK”. You choose.

    We’ve seen the images, the parade of hearses, and we’re told that the boxes are in the UK, being “analyzed”. It’s all pretty tidy and under control, with the exception of the wreckage which is under constant bombardment.

    There is the possibility that it is as described and was shot down by Ukrainian putsch forces by mistake. Of course, why would they move the missile launchers there and remove them immediately afterward?

    These people are completely insane. It looks to me as if they are pushing their handler’s agenda at breakneck speed. The lies are accelerating to keep pace with the outrages. It all works together in some sick, twisted fashion.

    1. Patrick, to your point, the “sawed” cockpit is indeed “interesting”. There has been talk about the locals moving wreckage. I can’t imagine them moving it into position in the middle of a crash site.

      As you say, some of the bits are a little large and pristine to have just fallen 33,000 feet. I’m going to have to think a little harder on this. The only logical explanation for sawing the fuselage would be that it would fit the truck. The MSM has remarked on this, however, and blamed the “rebels” for it. That is a lot of work for a “rebel” to do for no apparent reason.

      To add more confusion, there was the talk of it “exploding” in mid-air and falling over 6 or 7 KM’s. It certainly doesn’t look that way to me. I suspect this is why they are not being allowed to examine the crash site. They probably hope that by the time they get in there it will be so pulverized by artillery fire they won’t be able to make sense of it.

      The fact that the government is not demanding that they stop shelling it is telling. As we’ve become so accustomed to, we are not supposed to analyze their stories. If they show you a decayed body that fell through the roof of a hovel, that’s all you need to know.

    1. Nothing should be a surprise anymore. What was done to the residents of Diego Garcia and their animals to clear room for a military installation was just a prelude for worse things to come. Whether MH370 ended up on this island or not, we no longer need confirmation of what the cabal, with the assistance of its minions, is capable of.

      John Pilger – Stealing a Nation:

    2. Fish, excellent link. I’m always amazed at how smart people, with insider information, and every reason to see a bigger picture, somehow cling to party politics and imaginary constructs.

      The first part is pretty good. I was feeling vindicated because he was saying a lot of what I’ve said previously. Then he goes into some sort of illogical defense of Obongo, that frankly not only is ridiculous, it isn’t even worthy of consideration.

      He admits that the whole story of our Dear Leader is fabricated, but he’s a “supporter”? Why? He knows that these think tanks and dark organizations are really in control, but he sees political parties as having differences and actually trying to affect change?

      He’ a bright guy and I don’t doubt his sources. But how do you have that knowledge and come away with the belief that things are somehow “mildly broken” and root for a tool?

      I guess all I can say is that knowledge and judgement are not the same thing.

      1. Ahhhh, Patrick…..the “Georgia Guidestones.” If you cannot see in these the handwriting of Satan, you may never see it.

        I have read every post on these alleged missing and shot down flights. And let me say, to all who have posted videos and comments with very specific considerations….thank you. For those of you who are aware of who I am, I tend to boil things down faster than a shark man who boils down the flesh of a sharks head to pure jaws. I am in awe of the evidentiary pursuits and chronicling of the likes of Lophatt, Mark, Patrick and a number of others.

        I guess I am plagued with simplicity, if you please. And what I mean is this; what technology cannot be doctored or altered to seemingly substantiate or validate any given hierarchal agenda? Is there a technology that exists that cannot be tampered with to substantiate a political claim? I have been directly involved in a Christian paranormal ministry now for four years, and I could relate things that have happened to our technology and cell phones that would make your hair stand on end. Transponders, flight recorders, radar readings, flight data….this technology is child’s play for spiritual forces of wickedness. Even alleged eyewitness accounts.

        I really hope I am not boring the MHB family with my constant insistence that what we are witnessing and dealing with are not the orchestrations of flesh and blood, but of the agenda of fallen angels and their master, Satan (adversary). Because if I am, shame on you. You will never understand the inherent flaw in human misperception if you really believe its all related to flesh and bone mechanizations. You will never understand Sandy Hook and Boston, and MH370 and MH 17.

        Lophatt posted that there are no such things as countries, but rather, blocs. Let me further say, there are no such things as either countries OR blocs. In Ephesians chapter two, the apostle Paul identifies the devil as “the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.” Paul also in 2nd Corinthians 4:4 identifies him as “the god of this age.” He does not merely control SOME countries and SOME governments, but ALL OF THEM…including the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. So forget regional control. His scope is WORLDWIDE.

        There is a plan in place with the alleged disappearance of MH 370, and the alleged downing of MH 17. Let me add also that there is a new H2 series entitled “Ghost Planes” (which deals with the disappearances of commercial airliners dating back to the 1950’s.

        Keep watch. There are constantly new programs regarding the possibility (false) of the reality of extraterrestrials in all of these events.

        2nd Thessalonians 2:7-12, “For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back (the Holy Spirit) will continue to do so till He is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed (the anti-Christ), whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of His mouth and destroy by the splendor of His coming. The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.”

      2. “Ahhhh, Patrick…..the “Georgia Guidestones.” If you cannot see in these the handwriting of Satan, you may never see it.”

        Indeed I do see it, Joseph. And I agree with everything you say here. In fact, I created a bit of a dust up yesterday making exactly your points at the most recent posting:

        I clicked on your name, and intend to explore your web site. I know many people involved in the ministry your work involves; I try here at MHB to keep the spiritual references to a minimum–because mostly we’re analyzing MSM reporting–but am not afraid to bring it up when apposite.

        The Guidestones are obviously inspired by the Brotherhood of Darkness, which in turn is energized by Satan. Still, the Brotherhood are human beings. Demonized humans to be sure, but flesh-and-blood sons and daughters of Adam at birth. And as I said, they proudly talk out loud about their desire to kill 90% of the human race (Jacques Cousteau, for example), so it’s worth mentioning on a purely material level. A human man walked into a bank and set up an account to finance human stonemasons to build and install a physical monument, and provide for its upkeep into the future. (It’s also nothing special, in terms of embedded esoteric knowledge, as for instance the Pyramids were).

        Funny thing about the Guidestones, though: the guy who commissioned them was anonymous. Maybe he wasn’t so proud of his message after all (or maybe he thought people would stop buying Braves game tickets if the local mundanes knew who it was). Aleister Crowley, for an example, consumed his entire fortune promoting his evil mission. “R. C. Christian” is/was no Aleister Crowley.

    3. I listened to the first hour of the Gordon Duff interview. Before I listened I was inclined to think he was a good guy, but now I’m not sure. He makes his living as an intel consultant for other countries, and seems to like Obama an awful lot. I noticed the host Henrik Palmgren, did not bite at any of his invitations to come hang out in the USA and shoot guns.

      I was wondering if anyone saw the very interesting parody Weird Al did of the Lourde’s song “Royals”? Called “Foil”, it pokes fun of wacky conspiracy theorists:

      At first I was like, oh ha -ha, well done Weird Al, (he is a local guy). It gets kind of creepy quick though,.Stackpot came out with a video showing the very strange subliminal messages inserted:within the videos.

      The subliminal images of Weird Al covered in blood!, fit in really well with the latest Ebola scare. Jon Rappaport is talking sense about Ebola on his blog, but over at GodLikeProductions,
      people are freaking out saying this virus has been re-engineered to be airborne by a George Soros and Bill Gates funded bio-weapons lab. This blog also states that WHO spokesman Glenn Thomas and many other top AIDS researchers who died in the plane crash, were the very people who would understand what an engineered virus would look like.

      For some reason I am also remembering the strange story of the death of Jack Wheeler II. Maybe just because he was a complete Military Industrial Complex insider, who was against the use of biological weapons.
      “Mr. Wheeler graduated from West Point in 1966, serving as a staff officer in Vietnam, the Office of the Secretary of Defense, and the Joint Staff before leaving active service in 1971. While on active duty, he authored the first Biological and Chemical Joint Munitions Effectiveness Manual and the analysis supporting the President’s decision that the U.S. will not use biologicals.” He was involved with aerospace and cyber-security.

      There are so many Ebola threads on GodLikeProductions. If its true that GLP is a government intelligence run entity, they are really pushing the Ebola fear. I also heard that there is a vaccine in the works…

      Are the elites really insane enough to try and kill 90% of the population with some horrifying disease? Maybe I need a consultation with Gordon Duff for the answer to that question. Maybe I am trying to hard to connect the dots on all these stories. Maybe its all connected somehow.

      1. Callimom, I understand your point. I’ve said many times that I read all sorts of things, most I don’t entirely agree with. It is more common than not to have someone with excellent information come to the wrong conclusion. I don’t fully understand why that is. To me there seems to be a logic or ethical problem.

        The points that he made are known to me to be true. Some of them, for example the damage to Dimona, I was unaware of. I don’t doubt it, however.

        His politics are absolutely strange. He apparently does not have any problem with some of what they do. I would take it for what it is, information.

        It is precisely this type of information that helps to understand when they are lying. There are no missile launches they are unaware of. There are no nuclear releases they are unaware of. There are no missing airliners.

        When we understand that, think of what a massive ruse it is to have dozens of countries searching, etc.. All of it is theater.

        I like your reasoning. Looking at these things is both fascinating and depressing. As overdone as it is, the movie “The Matrix” was closer to the truth than some believe. The world these creatures inhabit that organize and orchestrate these events is real. It is us “outsiders” who are fed the theatrics. Ironically, it is us who pay for and enable them.

        Orwellian, is much too tame a term. To answer your question, yes, they are insane enough. To them it sounds delightful. We do not share a common moral ethos. It is the ones pointing at others who are responsible. They need our distraction to complete their work.

      2. “Are the elites really insane enough to try and kill 90% of the population with some horrifying disease?”

        Indeed they are, and they say it out loud. Take, for instance, The Georgia Guidestones. The Vigilant Citizen published an article about them a few years ago ( It begins like this:

        “The Georgia Guidestones is a mysterious monument on which are carved ten “commandments” for a “New Age of Reason”. The first commandment? Maintaining the world population under 500 million people.”

      3. The Guide Stones aren’t the only reference. They openly advocate for this. The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, for example, is actively engaged in Eugenics.

        As a practical matter they have crossed a milestone. Previously the art of ruling was to keep the people in a state of fear, but not too much fear as to be uncontrollable. Now, with all the militarization they believe they no longer have to worry about “over-exciting” the masses.

        If the masses begin to riot over being poisoned and diseased, they simply send in the Stasi to kill off a few more. It’s all very “efficient”.

        Whether the Ebola thing is real or fear-mongering, they will use it to maximum advantage. He signed another EO that allows them to arrest and detain healthy people, just in case. I’m waiting for the outrageous response from Congress (ha!). The silence is deafening.

    1. Fish, good video. We’ve gone over the pat treatment dozens of times on the SHES extravaganza. I like how he points out the constant presence of cameras when these people have their emotional outbursts.

      Why would there be all those people waiting at an airport days after a known event like a crash? What would be the purpose of that? If you knew someone on a flight somewhere, and heard that it crashed, why would you go to the airport?

      How would that couple strolling at the crash site, get in there? It is supposed to be under bombardment. Who would immediately run out and have a T-shirt made?

      One of the dead giveaways in these are the graphics. They have these animations to explain what happened, immediately after the event. It usually takes quite some time just to find out what happened yet alone develop animations to increase the drama of it all.

      So the purpose isn’t so much to convince us that the evil Ruskies shot down an airliner, it is to enflame hatred and demand retribution. I remember when the stated purpose of “news” was to inform.

  44. While I still have some reservations about the theory that the crash of MH17 was staged on the ground, this analysis is looking more and more convincing. Consider this video by livingonplanetz:

    Among the anomalies explained by this are the presence of radar chaff at the crash site, the absence of a smoke plume from the descending wreckage, the odd trails leading to each piece of debris in the wheat field, and the presence of pre-dead passengers.

    The question that remains unanswered is why the Russian separatists would allow this staging if the plane really landed in territory held by them. Were they really in control of the crash site? Why would they lie about this?

    Could the new MH370 have been diverted to Diego Garcia on March 8, had its tail number altered from MRO to MRC, and used to fly the Amsterdam to Kuala Lampur route? The 17 year old MH17 (tail number MRD) could then have been chopped up, concealed in temporary buildings at the crash site, and brought out the night before the shoot down to stage the event.

    1. Excellent find, Christo. I was only speculating in my earlier comments, trying to connect the dots. When I looked at the map and noticed that the Sea of Azov is so very close to the debris field, and having learned from another commenter (I think it was Kathy) all the wreckage is close to the road through the billionaire mayor/coal magnate’s fiefdom, my gnawing suspicions about Diego Garcia seemed justified. The sawn plane parts awe too strange, too.

      This video adds excellent new evidence! Look at the pictures of the wheat field, for example. It was very clearly all dragged into place!

      And the flight path merging with another plane! Wow. I had actually written in one of my comments about how little I know about Air Traffic Control, and how it would certainly hold very important clues, but I deleted those remarks because I REALLY don’t know anything about it, so I couldn’t even pose clearly crafted questions. I was hoping someone who knew something about it would be thinking the same thing, and talk about it here.

      This you have done! Thanks!

      1. Patrick, if you remember the “9-11 Movie”, there was a drill. There were all sorts of simulations. They are easily computer-generated.

        The problem is that if someone else’ radar, say the Russians, look at it, they don’t see those simulations. It is an easy matter to set up any plane with a transponder signal. If it says “MH-17”, that’s what it is to the ATC. If they turn it off, they see a blip.

        If a military aircraft, without a transponder, is in the same spot, it can dive and create the illusion of a crash. I’m not saying that’s what happened, I’m saying it isn’t that hard to do.

        Think about it, everything would look perfectly normal. The flight data would show MH-17 on the correct heading, etc.. Then they would divert it to where it is needed. Then we have the intercept. At some point the transponder is switched off and chaff is released. It shows as falling airplane or debris. The military planes turn around and leave.

        On the ground there is a big explosion. Apparently there used to be a building (warehouse?) there. The personal effects are brought to the site and “distributed”.

        Remember, now they are shelling the area daily. That is to keep anyone out. They weren’t shelling it before.

      2. This is where I freely admit my ignorance; ATC is a technical matter, and all I can do is ask people who understand how it works what can and can’t be covered up, and how. I’m glad for your remarks, lophatt.

        I think this discussion is getting us somewhere.

    2. Good stuff!! I mentioned the chaff early on and someone “ripped my face off” over it. Very strange. I can absolutely see how that would be possible.

      If you examine the luggage and other artifacts, there are no signs of fire or fall damage. How is that possible?

      There is another video I posted of a couple visiting the crash site. There is no one else around. They are just wandering around looking at things. It’s the one with the lady with a T-shirt with a picture of her daughter on it.

      Early on I thought the chaff important. I still do. It is designed to mask aircraft. Perhaps it did.

      1. Dino, yes, it is ejected by an aircraft. It is strips of aluminized material that is weighted at one end and designed to float down in strips. It confuses radar.

        Those strip-like things seen in the explosion are chaff. What I’m suggesting is that a group of military fighter planes would confuse the radar. They don’t have transponders that send an identification signal. All you would have to do is equip one with a transponder, set the transponder to read “MH-17”, shut it off at the appropriate time, release the chaff and head back to the base. Meanwhile, on the ground there’s an explosion. In the explosion you see chaff raining down.

        It’s at least plausible, given all the other information. Fighter planes, and sometimes transports, carry chaff in order to release it if they are targeted by missiles. The hope is that the radar in the missiles will home in on the chaff instead of the plane.

        To the Russian ATC they would simply see MH-17’s transponder signal, the military aircraft can’t be positively identified. They do some maneuvers to blend with the signal, shut of the transponder and the ATC sees “debris” falling.

        Of course I can’t “know”, but, the evidence is piling up. If you watch the Russian presentation, they mention the military aircraft. During the 9-11 drill there were many simulations on the ATC’s screens. It was so bad that one of the intercept pilots yelled at them to turn if off so he could find his tanker to refuel.

        Release of chaff would certainly explain the loss of altitude and speed. The indicated airspeed was too slow for a plan to remain aloft. As they interpreted that to mean that it broke up up in the air, they weren’t surprised by not having a clear flight path to the ground.

        What I’m suggesting, in simple terms, is that they “bombed” the site of the explosion with chaff.

  45. Here’s more information on the crash. I originally leaned toward the air-to-air missile. Recently there has been much on the bullet holes.

    The article also has information on the lookalike plane I mentioned earlier parked at Tel Aviv. Like so much else about this and others, it could have been done several ways.

    We should remember that when we see footage of an explosion, for example, we have no way of knowing that it is actually a picture of THE explosion. Just like all the others, we have images and narrative.

    This one has a unique twist with the Russian information. They have no reason to lie. They are not being controlled. I actually think that they carefully mentioned the US satellite being in the area at the time to send a message that “they know”.

    If they keep up the nonsense with Russia they may get an unintended surprise. They have information about 9-11 that they would definitely not want to see come out. Intelligence sources say that they have privately made them aware of what they know.

    Perhaps the pristine bits from the crash site were placed there to “enhance” the scene. I haven’t quite pieced this together. It could even be that the planes that did the shoot down aren’t Ukrainian. We have assets there.

    One thing is certain, they don’t want anyone at the scene. They’ve been pounding it non-stop. The US voted against a resolution to make them stop shelling it. Why would they not wish to get to the bottom of this?

    1. Very interesting, lophatt.

      Barry Chamish wrote about the Mofaz family recently( In it, he points out the strangeness of the photograph taken of the “downed” plane before it took off.

      Reading the article you linked to, particularly the part about the bullet holes, I can’t help but wonder if I am right about Diego Garcia. If the whole thing was staged, and they prepared the props in Area 51-quality secrecy, I can picturing them blasting the parts of MH370 with machine gun fire, from the inside and the outside, who cares? The guys doing it would not have been Hollywood-conscious of continuity, and certainly, the MSM would never notice, or report on minor logical discrepancies in the story they were told to mimic.

      As you say, the elements of this story are not easy to reconcile. But I am leaning farther and farther away from a shoot-down.

      It’s nice that James’ weekly podcast was about Oklahoma City this week, and that the guy was also a TWA800 researcher, in this regard. Everything is a lie, when the American government has its paws on it, and they go to great lengths to create these charades. Unravelling them is a house of mirrors experience.

      1. Patrick, yes, I haven’t decided yet either. Like I said, what do we have? Images. Sure, I can see what appears to be a panel riddled with bullet holes. Was it an actual part from the plane? I don’t know.

        As you pointed out, some of the body pieces look “placed”. I’ve even been entertaining a thought that maybe the Ukrainians didn’t shoot it down. We have assets in the area. There are “shadow resources” all around. All the Russians know is that a military aircraft or two were caught on radar.

        I also happen to know that in these times nothing goes undetected. They may not admit it, however, as they don’t like to reveal their capabilities.

        The one certainty is that it is not as advertised. Somehow, MH 370 and that plane in Tel Aviv are connected to this. I can feel it in my bones. There are simply too many people lying.

  46. The first big gain in this unfortunate event appears to be the complete mapping of the South Indian Ocean which would now be more of an opportunity to make bucks – MH17 would have simply been the diversion – Just like Bush Oil – The World needs to change tack for our own survival & to safeguard this mostly innocent population – or you could do what Hitler did? Your Call!

    1. what exactly did hitler do? is it possible that every thing we have been told about history has really been some sort of sandy hook charade? I watched this 7 hour production that describes wwII from a german perspective and I have to say it really made me question, well, everything. I can’t say I wholly endorse it but it is well worth the time spent viewing. I don’t want to add any fuel to Sue’s fire but history is written by the victors and usually the most evil and powerful win.

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