The Legacy of Oklahoma City

From a MHB Reader.

The correspondence below, received over one month ago from a former Oklahoma City resident, is especially timely given recent developments in the Boston Marathon bombing case. On January 30 the US Department of Justice announced that it will pursue the death penalty against Dzhokhar Tsarnaev for the Boston bombing. (See BMB Timeline.) This is the most high-profile death penalty case pursued by the federal government since it sought to execute Timothy McVeigh for his alleged role in the 1995 bombing of the Oklahoma City Murrah Federal Building.

It is a privilege to share this letter, particularly since the reader’s true courage and initiative in seeking to fully examine and understand the monumental crime visited upon his community, likewise exemplified in the Oklahoma City Bombing Investigation Committee’s work and the film A Noble Lie, are the nation’s most vital and necessary resources.-JFT

Dr. Tracy,

I admire your nerve in speaking out about the Sandy Hook “staged” disaster and your comments about Oklahoma City, etc. Ok City is my hometown and I have many relatives living there and in Stillwater. I followed the facts on the bombing of the Murrah Building in Ok. City and knew people directly involved as witnesses or victims in that incident.

General Parton clearly proved that the explosive devices that brought down the building were shaped charges of C-4 Plastic and not Ammonium Nitrate. I also interviewed a gentlemen at the nearby Classen High School museum (1 1/2 block from the Murrah Bldg.) who was in the museum the day of the explosions and he was very sure that the first explosion (Am. Nitrate Bomb) could be heard like a loud boom but that the second explosion was a sharp crack bang which shook the museum bldg. and broke several glass windows in the museum.

I worked with a group in Ok. City to try to replicate the concrete skeleton of the Murrah Building to prove that an Am. Nitrate bomb could not have destroyed the concrete columns in the building but was not able to muster the funds to do so. The positive proof that the root cause of the explosion was not the Am. Nitrate bomb was the fact that the entire Murrah Building debris was hauled away and buried in nearby El Reno at the U.S. Army Reservation and marked “restricted area”.

I didn’t follow the Sandy Hook Shooting in detail but I did play close attention to the Boston Marathon bombing and it is abundantly clear that the bombing was staged. The video shot of the two suspected bombers shows back packs with no bulge to suggest that they had pressure cooker bombs inside their backpacks. Additionally, the individual who supposedly had his legs blown off was smiling and his knubs were clearly mature surgical amputations. As one Orthopedic Surgeon pointed out, “If this man had lost his lower legs, he would be lying prone with tourniquets applied to his upper thighs to reduce the bleeding.”

In my opinion, what we are dealing with is a federal government that has rogue agencies following directives from the highest levels of government in order to accomplish a political goal ([repeal of] 1st Amendment Free Speech and 2nd Amendment right to keep and bear arms [gun control]). I am not a conspiracy nut but neither am I a fool. Isn’t it interesting that in all of the school shootings as well as the Aurora Colorado Theater shooting, the killers were all proven to be on mind altering drugs?

Please keep up the good work and tell your bosses at [censored] University that 1,000’s of us out here in fly over country support your stand and applaud your bravery. Respond if you can and tell me how I can help.

Respectfully,

[Name and address withheld on request.]

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80 thoughts on “The Legacy of Oklahoma City”

  1. It’s good to have this heartfelt letter supporting James and this site. You mention the rogue elements running these strange staged false flag events. Perhaps it’s no longer rogue elements but more like the government itself. Every member of Congress after all knows exactly what happened in Oklahoma City, DC, NYC, Boston, and Sandy Hook, not to mention the real story of JFK. The events may be parceled out on a need to know basis but there is no way Congress is not implicit in the events occurring, and their devotion to covering them up is legendary, complete with bad acting when interviewed. The media are also quite helpful on the march to making America a different country. Now the news about Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, who may be brought to the alter of human sacrifice to strike fear, terror and obedience in the wee citizens. He’s “not showing any remorse” according to the press – meaning even though he’s in solitary confinement without direct access to his lawyers, he still hasn’t been broken and maintains his innocence. They can’t trot him out to the public if that’s what he would say in court. Meanwhile, Boston has no independent investigation or committee to help him and no Muslims are speaking out for him either.

    1. I agree, Marzi;

      “It’s good to have this heartfelt letter supporting James and this site. You mention the rogue elements running these strange staged false flag events. Perhaps it’s no longer rogue elements but more like the government itself.”

      I just tried to read “Days of Fire: Bush and Cheney in the White House” by Peter Baker (DoubleDay) and had to give up after a dozen or so pages as it’s such an obvious “hooray for us” job that I couldn’t face the task of continuing. For giggles, I checked the index for “conspiracy,” given the ever increasing number of people who doubt any government explanation for anything. Silly me. I didn’t feel as guilty for refusing to continue reading after seeing this review:
      http://www.alternet.org/books/tears-fires-and-evasions-sentimental-repackaging-george-w-bush

      Toward the very end of the documentary ” ZERO: An Investigation Into 9/11″ George Bush says, “It’s hard, for Americans, to imagine how evil these people are who would do this.” Tongue in cheek?
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XRMrMdn0NQ

  2. An alternative explanation for Tsarnaev’s “refusal to show remorse” may be that he is on the lobotomizing recipe of drugs that Susan Lindauer (“Extreme Prejudice”) and Abraham Bolden (“Echo From Dealey Plaza”) were confronting. You don’t hear ANYTHING from people who are being subjected to that.

  3. The Murrah Building is striking in the similarity it bears to the remaining buildings at Ground Zero, especially Building 4. It is as if a portion of the building was sliced out while remnants do not bear the imprint of explosive force.

  4. John Doe #2 ?….looks a lot like we have narrowed it down to German Andreas Strassmeir. A woman who was on the floor where a group of men were planting the bombs said one of those individuals was a German. Of course, her testimony was never taken seriously if at all.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=andreas+strassmeir&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=LBPtUsbWJbXLsQTP2IKYBw&ved=0CCQQsAQ&biw=512&bih=319

    If you are an American and if you have a conscience, you search for the truth amid the chaos and double talk. The case against the young Chechnyan is enough to drive sane people to distraction. You cannot build a nation on lies.

    1. A nation wasn’t built. It’s a corporate entity that was fabricated; one that is still beholden to those who run things across the pond.

    2. I wonder if a mental health squad besieged Oklahoma City after the bombing there. Real people died in that horrific Gladio style terror attack.

      “Psychiatric disorders were studied in a volunteer group of 181 firefighters who served as rescue/recovery workers after the Oklahoma City bombing …”

      Ted Gunderson, retired head of Los Angeles FBI, died in 2011. He would’ve had plenty to say about Sandy Hook as he did about Oklahoma City, 9/11 and the Franklin Cover-up. Here is 9 minutes with Ted Gunderson on the Oklahoma City bombing where he mentions the German:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-lCYjdusVM

  5. There was a reporter, named Susan Carlson, at McVeigh’s execution, and she said McVeigh continued to breathe when he was supposedly dead. Carlson was chosen as one of the select few to witness the execution by her friend–Chandra Levy (who then turned up dead).

    http://www.goodnewsaboutgod.com/studies/current_news/mcviegh_alive.htm

    Judge Richard Matsch, who did the OK bombing trial in Denver, has a military background. His ascendancy to a federal judgeship in Denver was rocket-propelled: he had very little experience either as a lawyer or a judge before being appointed.

    1. He may be in the same place as the crew and passengers from flight 93. Remember, they are more useful when they are totally controlled, drugged, and brainwashed, aka a modern high level of slavery.

    2. Gawd! They all know each other! They handled this case like the “Citizens Vigilance Committee” in San Francisco in the nineteenth century. “Fair” trial followed by a “first-class hanging”.

      Missing documents, missing witnesses. The defendant waiving appeals. I doubt if there is another capital case that went as quickly from trial to “execution” in our time. It’s one of those things that make ya’ go hmmmmm?

      1. Yes, lophatt–I didn’t know about the “Citizens’ Vigilance Committee” in San Francisco–I will look that up. As for your later comment, about the FBI wanting Randy Weaver to spy on someone “down the road”: I hadn’t heard anything about that, either. Can you fill us in?

        I have been mulling over more the Constitutional mandate about the trial being held in the state where the crime was committed. It’s jurisdictional. Jurisdiction cannot be created in a court by stipulation of the parties. Holding the trial in Colorado was patently unlawful, therefore, and I think the surest sign that the trial was fake.

      2. One more thing lophatt’s comment reminds me of, which bears on Sandy Hook, is Operation Northwoods, the 1960’s plan of the Joint Chiefs of Staff whereby we were going to mount a series of false-flag incidents to justify going to war against Cuba. Number 11 on their “to do” list was to blow up one of our own ships in a Cuban port and conduct funerals for the mock victims.

        1. dino, yes, in the Ruby Ridge massacre, Randy Weaver was simply trying to raise his family “off the grid”. There was a “compound” (their term) of militia near his home. They had a church and held picnics for the locals. Randy would take his kids there for the picnics so they could play with other kids and got to know the militia guys. He was NOT a member.

          The group had been infiltrated by the FBI and ATF. A couple of agents (posing as neighbors) had come to him asking if he’d machine down the barrels of a couple of shotguns (he had a lathe). He refused at first but they kept pestering him until he finally agreed to do it.

          Once he did that they came to him with an arrest warrant and told him if he didn’t cooperate by spying on the militia guys they would bring him to trial and lock him away. He refused.

          As I recall, he went to the arraignment and was scheduled back for the trial but he saw what was going to happen and simply didn’t show up. That was the excuse for the raid. You probably know the rest of the story.

          As to the “Citizen’s Vigilance Committee”, in the 1800’s in San Francisco there were a series of murders. Everyone knew who was responsible but, outside of a traveling federal judge, there was no real law enforcement. It got so bad that it was dangerous for honest people to walk the streets because these thugs operated with impunity.

          They formed the “Vigilance Committee”, swore citizens (deputized them), they went out, gathered up all the known murderers and waited for the federal judge. I don’t remember how many but it was a bunch.

          The judge had a couple of days of “trials”, they were found guilty and hanged from the front of the local hotel. There wasn’t another murder for many years after that. It was VERY effective.

        2. It amazes me how TV and movies celebrate lying, and coercion by authorities as acceptable methods for building a case against those not guilty, to catch those who may be guilty.

        3. dino, Operation Northwoods was very real. It was briefed all the way to the President. He refused to implement it. There were airliners involved as well.

          It is good to see how broad in scope this thing is. We are not the innocent country we used to pretend to be.

          I trace the current chain of operations from Gordon Caul, through Ruby Ridge, Waco, OKC and up to the present. For those the primary targets were militia or “Constitutionalists”.

          Of course the government has an interest in controlling any opposition. Besides that, war is profitable. When the Soviet Union collapsed there was a void to fill. The current “War on Terror” fills that nicely and provided all sorts of other “opportunities” for exploitation that would be difficult otherwise.

          The concept has been around for centuries. There must be an enemy in order for the people to be willing to finance them and shed blood. If everyone simply refused to participate they’d be out of luck. There is no “higher purpose” in these things, that’s for the chumps.

  6. I read a book about the Jesuits, something like Secret Terrorists Within. It was published before Sandy Hook. It claims the Jesuits are responsible for 9/11, Waco, Oklahoma, JFK, sinking of Titanic, Lincoln assassination, etc. It says it goes back to the League of Nations when the U.S. declined and from then on it was their intent to control an destroy our country. The book names many prominent politicians, news organizations, corporations, and the CFR that it controls.

    1. Bill: there are quite a lot of dis-info artists and soldiers who say same thing, trying to distract upon the Jesuits–who, indeed, are quite nefarious characters, and may in fact be involved, but not as the masterminds, u see?

      And the reason is the main, basic INSTRUMENT/weapon, which gives the real malefactors their real power–such as the US Federal Reserve Bank COUNTERFEIT scam which prints-up and digitalizes all the funds which is NECESSARY for serious, systematic subversion–is controlled by quite other than Jesuits.

      And the powers behind the Fed scam are Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), Trilateralists, and Bilderbergers. Jesuits may in fact be members–like the son, I believe, of John Foster Dulles–but they’re surely not the leaders.

      U gotta “follow the money.” Fed is key to the entire, large conspiratorial network.

      1. I disagree, actually–I think the Jesuits are behind much, if not all, of this, too. There is a predominance of Catholics in law enforcement and on the bench, at any rate.

        There is a theory that the creation of the Fed WAS, in fact, a Jesuit plot, having to do with the Titanic. It is that J.P. Morgan really, really wanted a central bank, but other rich (ethical) men–John Jacob Astor, Benjamin Guggenheim, and Isidor Straus–opposed it. These three were invited, by J.P. Morgan, to sail on the maiden voyage. Morgan owned the company that built the Titanic. Morgan was scheduled to travel on the maiden voyage, too, the theory goes, but cancelled his booking the day before.

        When the ship went down, opposition to the Federal Reserve was removed, and the U.S. went to war. Where the Jesuits come in is that supposedly the ship’s captain was visited by a high-up Jesuit priest shortly before it sailed, who gave the captain (a very experienced seaman) an instruction to sink it. Here is where the theory does not hold together that well, because J.P. Morgan was not himself a Jesuit. I remember seeing some ambiguity about even this on the web, though.

        1. Dino: this is laughable–don’t get me wrong–I’m first to admit Jesuits are quite nefarious–they were banned by Pope fm about 1770 to 1811 for excellent reason. Pt. I’m making is they’re NOT the top master-minds. And there’s lots of neat research on the genesis of the Fed, like Griffin’s “The Creature From Jekyll Island,” Rothbard’s “History of Money and Banking in the United States,” and “The Origins of the Federal Reserve.” I don’t know about “predominance of Catholics in . . . bench,” as u give no figures. But Of the twenty-six(26) Americans who attended the 2009 Bilderberg conference, eighteen(18) are Jews. See http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=107125.0

        2. The primary, I think misguided, complaint about the Jesuits comes from the fact that other “secret societies” copied their organizational structure and methods. Just like a gun has no volition of its own, a method can be used for good as well as evil.

          Presently they are primarily a teaching order. They are probably the most educated among highly-educated people. Their theological studies have brought them into conflict with the “Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith” (formerly known as the “Office of the Holy Inquisition”), this is the one that Cardinal Ratzinger ran.

          There have been many things written about them, largely inaccurate in my opinion. At times they have pushed the envelope, theologically, also politically. That is a big story in itself and I have no particular love, or hate for them. Being well-educated does not necessarily guarantee good sense or wise choices.

          The idea of them being at the center, or even the periphery of our current situation is ludicrous in the extreme. If anything, they have less influence today than at any other time in history.

          One last note on this is that ALL of Christianity is infiltrated. It would be naive to assume that it is not. I am anything but surprised by this. The Church has enemies. It’s principle enemy is the very force that creates the behavior we discuss here. So, pointing at individuals within the Church, or other sects, and saying “see, I told you they ALL think like that”, is childish. The petty intrigues that take place in Vatican politics and among conspirators who have entrenched themselves within the organizational structure have little, if any, influence among the faithful.

  7. If the Sandy Hook School massacre was staged domestic diplomacy in the interest of national security – was it legal? Here’s the law…

    NDAA – National Defense Authorization Act / FY 2013 NDAA / FY 13 – H.R. 4310

    Amendment #85, Version 1, Thornberry (TX), Smith, Adam (WA), Bi-Partisan

    “Would amend the United States Information and Educational Exchange Act of 1948 (known as the Smith-Mundt Act) and the Foreign Relations Authorization Act, Fiscal Years 1986 and 1987 to clarify the authorities of the Department of State and the Broadcasting Board of Governors to prepare, disseminate and use public diplomacy information abroad and to strike the current ban on domestic dissemination of such material. Would clarify that the Smith-Mundt Act’s provisions related to public diplomacy information do not apply to other Federal departments or agencies (including the Department of Defense).”

    http://www.rules.house.gov/Legislation/legislationDetails.aspx?NewsID=828

    “…if there is a possibility this language could be misinterpreted to allow a U.S. government agency to develop propaganda for a domestic audience please be assured, changes will be made to make sure it does not happen.”

    –Blog by Adam Smith (WA) one of the bill’s sponsors:

    http://adamsmith.house.gov/blog/?postid=296708

    Were changes made?

    http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/publications/detail/new-bill-targets-psychological-operations-at-us-citizens#ixzz2Rj7blbIK

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/may/15/congressmen-seek-update-propaganda-law/#ixzz2Rj8Vm8eq

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith%E2%80%93Mundt_Act

    http://www.amazon.com/Psychological-Warfare-New-World-Order/dp/0932367232

  8. Since we are on the subject of the OKC bombing, I wanted to throw something out here. I really think the OKC bombing holds the key to what happened on 911. Why? Because it apparently demonstrated that a “truck bomb” parked on the street could collapse a steel reinforced concrete building. Of course this is not what really happened, as Gen. Parton has shown, but it created a bureaucratic excuse to consider this possibility at the site of the most significant previous attack in US history, the 93 WTC buildings.
    Let’s remember what the 93 WTC bombers had intended to accomplish. They had hoped, so we are told,” to collapse the north tower into the south tower causing 250,000 casualties.” This according to author Laurie Mylroie in her book “Study of Revenge”. Might this have created the pretext for placing fire proof high tech demolition charges in the WTC complex in the event of a future “terrorist attack”? In other words, the demolition charges could have been justified on the basis of the OKC bombing, as a “safety measure” to prevent one tower from collapsing on the other, “saving hundreds of thousands of lives”. This I think is the rock under which the government planned to hide, should it be proven (as it has) that the WTC buildings were brought down by controlled demolition.

    1. Chris: it HAS NOT NOT NOT been “proven” WTC bldgs. were brought down by “controlled demolitions”–see WhereDidTheTowersGo.com. The WTC bldgs. seem to have been literally dis-integrated. Explosive charges may indeed have been part, but the bldg. materials were dis-integrated, there being very little rubble left on the ground, the bath-tub enclosure which kept out the Hudson river not substantially damaged.

      1. I’m pretty sure the last Mohican willed them down due to the lack of debris and ever present resentment of the native american genocide. look at the denver airport mural – they hate native people!

  9. Two things always struck me as odd about the OKC bombing. There were apparently two other bombs found inside the Murrah Federal Building which did not detonate. They were removed by bomb squads after the collapse. This was recorded by local tv stations but unreported in the national MSM. Why were these there, and why didn’t they go off?The fact is that damage done to the building far exceeded what the truck bomb could have caused. Two more bombs would have taken the entire structure down. Someone wanted to demonstrate that a truck bomb out on the street could take down a steel reinforced concrete building, but someone else realized that demolishing the whole building would look very suspicious.
    The other thing I have always wondered about is why the bomber didn’t just put the bomb in a car in the parking garage beneath the building. Wasn’t there one there? Yes the big Ammonium nitrate bomb would not fit in a car, but on the other hand the car would have been much closer to the building’s structural supports. This would have looked a lot more realistic. As it was the truck bomb did not have the ability to do the damage caused. As was shown by Gen. Parton, this could only have been done via explosives planted in the building. As the letter to Prof. Tracy mentions, two explosions were heard. Two explosions were also recorded by seismologists nearby.
    What I am suggesting is that part of the point of this false flag attack was to demonstrate that a truck bomb out on the street could do this kind of damage. In the case of the WTC buildings, one can restrict access to the basement parking garage, but one cannot close down all the streets around the building in order to protect it from terrorist truck bombs. Therefore some other solution had to be found to the problem of the twin towers toppling into each other, causing hundreds of thousands of casualties.

    1. Dmitri Khalezov former sovjet nuclear intelligence officer is wellinformed about mininukes and details many actual cases. Thereamong the OKC bombing. There he also provides a (rare?) photography clearly showing the outside crater made by an underground bomb symmetrical with respect to the damaged OKC building, like you would expect seeing what the damage looks like. 911thology.com contains his long and very revealing document the third truth…

  10. There is absolutely no question that this was not done with ammonium nitrate. It DOES bear a striking resemblance to the WTC buildings. I suspect there’s a reason for that.

    There are actually quite a number of these “events” where it is claimed that a “truck bomb” created them, when in fact, that is quite impossible. A simple mental test is to estimate the amount of explosive it would take to create the damage. If a truck won’t hold that much, it couldn’t be the cause.

    As the poster says, the “crack” noise is the sound of high explosives. Not very dramatic, but powerful. I think this may have been something a good deal more powerful than that. I’m not alone in that suspicion.

    The purpose of controlled demolition has nothing to do with “drama”. It is merely to slice the supporting members and allow gravity to do the rest. In fact, I don’t think they’ve used in on anything above 20 stories.

    If you tried to do that with half a building I would imagine there would be problems. But, as you can see, it is neatly sliced clear through.

      1. For one thing, it is filthy. If as much fertilizer and fuel oil as claimed were used, there would be a digesting film of grime on every surface in the vicinity. That did not happen.

        1. Its also a low order explosive. Its good for mining operations where you drill long horizontal holes into a mine heading, pack it with ANFO(mine talk for ammonium nitrate/diesel 6%). Each hole is then wired with a booster charge and they are set off in a pattern to get the optimum amount of rock dislodged from the heading. The hole that is packed helps create the pressure giving more bang for the buck(as in ammunition cartridges). Hardly the right explosive for the job of cutting through steel and concrete from a long distance. Otherwise mine engineers would just lay a pile of it at the heading, saving the days of labor required to drill holes (up to 24 feet deep in examples I have seen) and layoff a bunch of employees. Hardly the High Order “crack” capable of cutting through steel. I have not seen the “Noble Lie” film, but I’m sure they explain this. It does create a hell of a concussion wave that travels down the rib of a mine, but that is because the hallway it travels down is directing it to do so.

      2. I believe they used a certain amount for “effect”. It’s noisy, dirty, creates a lot of smoke and noise, not much punch.

        In an open area a blast like that, no matter how powerful, will always take the path of least resistance. That’s up and out in the air. It could not have cut the building in half. I would be surprised if a truckload would do much besides blowing out the windows.

        I also don’t think the charges allegedly found are meaningful. They may have been used for some reason, but not the main blast. Even shaped charges simply cut columns into whatever lengths they are set at. They do not pulverize concrete and rebar.

        So when you ask if ammonium nitrate was “involved”, yes. Was it responsible, no. Remember, besides the theatric element they needed something that a “radical militia type” could manufacture. They use this stuff by the ton in mining. It will crack rock if a hole is drilled and it is tightly packed. It is a low order of explosive. Out in the air it would make a big noise.

  11. The renovation project at the Pentagon was reportedly undertaken partly in response to the OKC bombing, according to Kevin Ryan in his book “Another Nineteen”.”This new plan appeared to be an effort to improve the blast resistance of the exterior of the building..”(Page 155) One would also expect measures to have been taken at America’s other most famous terrorist target, the WTC buildings.

  12. I have always wondered why McVeigh was such a closed mouthed witness when, as his “co-conspiritor” Terry Nichols claims, McVeigh was working for the FBI”s Larry Potts. The fact that he was seen to be breathing after his “execution” explains a lot. He must have had some revealing documents stashed with a friend as insurance. One wonders what lies in store for “Djokar”. ls he just an actor playing a role who will be “executed”?

    1. Very interesting–I had not heard of this. It’s huge. And galling, because the most recent info I can find about this, using google, is from 2007.

      Remember, too, that at the last minute in the government’s case against McVeigh, when his execution was pending, the FBI suddenly reveals that it “found” a huge cache of potentially exculpatory documents. Judge Matsch denied the defense’s motion for stay, which would be an outrageous abuse of discretion–unless the judge had inside knowledge that the whole plan to execute McVeigh was a scam.

      We don’t know that it was for sure, of course, but I have mentioned Matsch’s military background and rapid ascendancy on the bench. Also, that the trial was held in Denver was an overt violation of Article III, Sec. 2, of the U.S. Constitution, which says “trial of all Crimes …shall be held in the State where the said Crimes shall have been committed …”

      1. My memory could be a little rusty on this one, dino, so forgive small slips, but here goes.

        There was a radio guy named William Cooper (a quick Google search turned up this: WHAT BILL COOPER SAID
        TWO WEEKS BEFORE HE WAS KILLED http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/cooper_said.htm) who Dr. Stan has said many times, repeatedly played on his show a tape of the witness saying “I thought dead people stopped breathing”–or words to that effect. If I remember correctly, that’s what Dr. Stan thinks got him murdered.

        Dr. Stan also likes to remind us of a letter McVey sent to his sister talking about how he was in a deeply secret government operation. If I remember correctly, he talked that way to his cell mate as he awaited trial.

        Essentially everyone at Elohim City was a federal informer.

        Taken all together, I have long suspected that McVey was rewarded very well for his excellent work, and lives in one of the Deep Underground Military Bases today. Or, if, as I believe, “we” have a REAL space program complete with bases on the Moon and Mars, that could be where he resides. Who knows? Maybe he and Barbara Olson are living together in one of those places?

        The things we know about the secret government tell us that the things we DON’T know about it are astounding.

        1. That link doesn’t actually turn up anything about McVeigh. But, yes, it’s possible McVeigh’s gone “underground.”

          Can you imagine being in his place, though, with an IV in your leg, strapped in the chair, just trusting that they weren’t really going to execute you? Whew.

          (As for Barbara Olson, she supposedly had plastic surgery and came back as “Lady Booth” to remarry Ted!)

        2. The google search was to make certain I got the name right, and the weird aliens thing seemed intriguing, as an alternate explanation for his murder. I linked to it to establish that he was the guy I remembered, and that it is widely recognized that his talk show got him assassinated. Sorry for not making that clear.

          But a bit more searching produced an article referencing his use of that witness quote on his show, if not exactly as Dr. Stan tells the story. So it is in fact the case. It would not be surprising if the McVey business was the actual straw that broke the camel’s back, and the secret government declared “will no one rid me of this troublesome talk show host?”, and ordered the hit.

          (I refrain from including two links in one comment because I have concluded that that is a trigger to send one to moderation. So I rarely do it, especially on a Sunday–when the good professor probably is away from the computer, having taken his kids to romp in the park in the warmth of South Florida while the rest of us freeze. And ESPECIALLY on the Sunday that functions as a second Christmas in post-Western America; even those of us who don’t care about sports are invited to Superbowl parties, so if the comment was to be seen any time before tomorrow, the best bet was to include just one link. Or add a second comment, which I was too stupid to think of doing.)

        3. That’s an interesting angle. “Babs” obviously didn’t “visit” the Pentagon. I would assume she is still bothering people somewhere.

          McVeigh, on the other hand, just might have “thought” they were going to trick the viewers with a fake execution and they may have just surprised him. Of course I don’t know that for certain.

          My speculation is that McVeigh is simply not important enough for them to worry too much about. He would be easier and more cheaply controlled by simply letting him become an “ex-agent”.

        4. Patrick and all, at the time I was working in an office full of architects and engineers. One of the magazines we regularly received had a big article on the Pentagon upgrade.

          I read it with some interest as I couldn’t believe the size and quantity of rebar scheduled for the outer walls. The concrete mixture was also super strong. One of the reasons I paid attention was that I had had a project a year or so earlier where rebar in an explosives magazine was similarly placed and we had a hard time getting the aggregate in the concrete to compact because the rebar interfered.

          I mention this because there is no doubt in my mind that an aluminum airplane did not slice through that. It is impossible. I doubt that a missile could do it. Maybe a specially placed charge of some type.

          Anyway, I don’t think McVeigh was “high-level” anything. More like a useful idiot. They like to find gung-ho military types and inflate their egos. They are always controlled by others. They think they are “on a mission”.

          In the case of OKC it is pretty obvious that the real explosive action was done by others. He delivered his load (or someone else did) on schedule and the theatric phase was complete.

          This operation follows an earlier one involving a man named Gordon Caul. He was a tax resister/rancher who they labeled a “militiaman” and ultimately murdered. His sone is doing life for protecting himself and his father in a federal ambush.

          At the time, and maybe even today, they feared the “militia movement” more than anything else. Now the attention has been diverted to imaginary Aye-rabs and such. It is beyond question that any open group of Constitutionalists have been thoroughly infiltrated.

          I actually had not considered that the execution could have been faked. Thinking about it, I don’t see why not. Since we seem to be in another phase of this entirely now, it is good to go back and remember. This was all part of the Ruby Ridge and Waco era. They were targeting these non-conformists for destruction.

        5. Another odd bit on McVeigh is that he was apparently in contact with Gore Vidal. Vidal alleged McVeigh sent letters to him explaining he did not intend to kill children and only wanted to make an anti-government statement of some kind. I suspect Vidal was either disseminating disinformation, or being fed it to discharge. People like Vidal and Chomsky make things utterly absurd (like a fertilizer bomb in a truck parked outside a large concrete building exploding, and destroying half of that building) invisible and unthinkable.

        6. That is the first I’ve heard of the Vidal angle. I’m not sure what to make of it. My understanding is that, as the cheese slipped off his cracker in late life, he devoted more and more time to chasing adolescent boys.

          I think McVeigh was similar to Oswald. He thought he was on a “mission”. They inflated his ego and he dove right in. All of these operations have to have a fall guy. They “sheep dipped” him as a militia type and used that for their ends.

        7. And what about that A-10 thunderbolt ll that broke formation in AZ and seemed to be heading for Denver with a load of ordinance.

        8. Yes Patrick, I think its safe to assume that Mc Veigh thought he was James Bond. He had the “Oswald Syndrome”. Some of the methods they use have been around a very long time. Sheep-dipping is a tried and true tradition.

          It is routine for them to use patsy’s. Look at Randy Weaver. They wanted him to spy on the group down the road and he refused. Guess they showed him, huh?

          As they advance this overall plan they tend to do it in phases. When this happened they were looking for excuses to crack down on militia movements. Incrementally they will continue to identify anyone they think represents a threat and neutralize them.

          McVeigh was precisely the type of individual they would “recruit”. Of course these guy’s intellectual capacities are such that they fail to consider that, once the show is over, so is their usefulness.

          One thing that comes out in this is the certainty that no matter what the FBI (or CIA) does, nothing will come of it. Just like Janet Reno we now have Eric Holder. I rest my case.

  13. Researching WTC 7 led me directly to the Oklahoma City Bombing.

    At the time while researching WTC 7, I wanted to know if other major terrorist attacks had so many discrepancies, alternative theories, and evidence that didn’t match official narratives. Then I could conclude that silly conspiracy theories were prevalent around all major events and should be greatly discounted, maybe ridiculed.

    OKC was the obvious event to research along side 9/11. Within five minutes, I was watching a very grainy film of this highly decorated and respected General Ben Partin telling anyone who would listen that a truck bomb could in no way cause that damage to the Murrah Building.

    Policeman hero Terry Yeakey who risked his life and saved many people from the building was being followed by “federal tails” and ended up murdered in a field because he was asking too many questions.

    Infamous CIA mind control / MK Ultra Psychiatrist Dr. Jolly West was visiting Tim McVeigh in prison? Mysterious Andreas Strassmeir with Mossad connections was chummy with McVeigh and then bolts out of the country with no manhunt after him? McVeigh writing a letter to his sister saying he was in Army Special Ops infiltrating domestic terrorist patriot groups? McVeigh videotaped in an army uniform long after he supposedly left the Army?

    An OKC Murrah Building employed women on camera saying she saw ATF agents planting something in the basement parking garage walls?
    All ATF agents not in the building on that day?

    I accidentally stumbled upon the precursor to 9/11.

    Pete Carroll, you just dominated the Broncos and have a huge platform to call for a 9/11 investigation which you have previously called for. Tell the American people that 9/11 needs to be reinvestigated. Tell them that evil is growing and that evil taking over our country. Use your fame for something powerful, something everlasting.

  14. I noticed the comments about the federal judge that presided over the McVeigh trial in Denver. The day after the Boston Marathon bombing a former federal district judge from Wyoming, Judge Downes, was in my office conducting a mediation. He mentioned that his nephew and his nephew’s wife both “lost limbs in the Boston bombing”. It’s also interesting that Judge Downes was only on the federal bench for a very short time before he retired. After his retirement he immediately entered private practice as a mediator with a group out of Denver. Considering that federal judges get their salary for life, it’s quite distasteful when someone takes the bench and retires right away. But what a perfect profile of the type of person that gets actively involved in perpetuating these hoaxes.

    1. That would be the Judicial Arbiter Group, most likely. All of their arbiters are former judges, both federal and state, mostly from Colorado. Their fees are very high, something like $600/hr.

      I do not see Downes in their photo gallery, but feel this has to be the organization he joined.

        1. I would suspect there are similar types of connections with all of the “victims” and other participants in these events. Are you aware of other similar connections to victims?

  15. I don’t see my comment from earlier this morning about the McVeigh trial’s being held in Denver as strong evidence it was a charade. This continues that line of thought.

    I have done several election contests and realized that a compelling reason for preferring precinct voting over mail ballots is identification of the voter. When you go in to vote in person, and announce your name (as does at least one election judge)–“Miss Ida Philpott here to vote”–someone in the line might say, “Wait! I know Ida Philpott. She has been my neighbor for 15 years. You are not Ida Philpott!”

    This would be true for survivors attending the McVeigh trial in Denver. There might be no one around who knows if they really are who they say they are. Moreover, there was the huge expense for an Oklahoma City resident to travel to Denver and stay for several weeks. I don’t know if any victims’ fund helped them. All the time, too, only one person–the “spokesperson for the victims,” Jannie Coverdale–seemed to ever be interviewed. She was the grandmother of two cute little African-American boys who were killed in the daycare center of the Murrah Building.

    Sometime not that long ago, maybe on this site, I heard the account of a male neighbor in their apartment complex, who added to her story by saying he had bought toys for the boys to deliver on the day they died.

    I perked up my ears. There was something very Sandy Hook about that.

    1. Yes, it’s fascinating how “blurry” jurisdictional lines have become. Apparently, there are state laws, UNLESS the feds decide otherwise.

      That trial was a joke. That spurred my reference to The Citizen’s Vigilance Committee. They wanted him hanged, but quick!

      Isn’t it funny how all it takes is a “friendly judge” to put their stamp of approval on something and its all “legal”?

      1. OK–just wanted to reiterate that we are not talking about state laws, but the U.S. Constitution that imposes this requirement. It is nonwaivable.

        The federal court in Colorado had no jurisdiction to hold the OKC bombing trial, period.

        I was glad you mentioned,earlier, that McVeigh waived his appeal–also very important to this picture.

        1. Dino, I totally agree. That’s what I was trying to say (not very well I guess).

          What I was saying is that “somehow”, it just doesn’t seem to matter any longer. You know this and so do I. But……..there it is.

          When I comment on things like this I’m not saying I’m happy about them. I’m just “amazed”. I have learned in my career that laws are only as good as the people’s willingness to abide by them. I could fill a book with examples of this.

          If you told a law school class some of this they’d argue with you and say “that can’t happen because…..”. But it DOES. As you pointed out, there was possible exculpatory evidence ignored IN A CAPITAL MURDER CASE. Not only that, it was broadcast everywhere.

          So, maybe what’s changed is that what used to be hidden is now in the open for all to see.

  16. dinophile-that neighbor was in the Noble Lie movie. Mrs Coverdale was featured in it also, along with Terry Yeakey’s mother.

  17. James, I think that the Valarie Carey letter was a fake sent to distract your readers from this very revealing thread of comments on the OKC bombing. Everyone here should watch the film “A Nobel Lie”.
    The “what happened” part of the OKC bombing was a perfect dry run for the 911 attacks. Demolitions set inside the building, with a patsy bomber outside to provide an official narrative, followed by a thorough Government cover-up. The remaining question is “Why did they do it?”. Clinton likely went along with the cover-up because the bombing destroyed incriminating documents linking him to the Mena AK drug running, but this doesn’t go far enough. As I have stated above, I think that the OKC bombing was used to set the stage for 911. (See Kevin Ryan’s “Another Nineteen“.)

    1. An aerial AP photo of okc showed clearly that the crater created by the explosion was on the outside – not the inside and the strength was some two orders of magnitude stronger than the truck bomb. Ie there was another much stronger bomb going of underground close to the truck, creating the kind of crater expected from underground explosions and not from carbombs. This AP photo can be seen on p633 in Dmitri Khalezovs downloadable document ..the third truth.. at 911thology.com
      He argues convincingly that this stronger bomb was a mininuke of at least 0.1kt and compares the okc case with the 1983 beirut bombings which he says were caused by 1kt nukes. He lines up some 15 cases from 1983 to 2008 officially claimed to be carbombs but which in several cases he proves were actually mininukes.

      1. There was also an exterior crater formed during the bombing of a government building in Oslo on 7/22, 2011. The prime minister was conveniently working at his home office that Friday afternoon, but some of his staff members were killed according to official reports. A former PM, global servant and Kissinger protégé Ms. Brundtland, had given a speech at the youth camp just prior to the “lone gunman” arriving at the island. She left just in time, another convenient coincidence.

        We are told that 77 in all were killed that day between the bombing and the following shooting at the youth camp while police acted like keystone cops. Even nearby military could not be mobilized in time. SOP in these Gladio style events.

        Photos of the crater here:
        http://www.redicecreations.com/article.php?id=16257

        1. Almost looks like an aerial bombing. Reminds me of a Tom Clancy movie, clear and present danger. They bombed the big drug dealer meeting with a smart bomb made of cellulose(no traces left), and tried to make it look like a car bomb.

        2. Anne, the mechanics of the thing is a constant. Any conventional explosive detonated in the open will not have sufficient pressure to do that sort of damage unless it is too large a quantity to be carried on a truck.

          In the open, to cause a crater like that, basically means that it expanded so quickly (in the open air!) that it had enough energy left to push what ever it was in into the ground. That takes a lot of energy.

          No conventional weapon capable of doing that is going to be light enough for your basic lone-nut assassin to carry. The story I read claimed he mixed it up on the farm (ampho).

          A more realistic explanation would be backpack nukes. They have had them since the 1950’s (supposedly never used), and are much improved since then. Believe it or not the Russians keep track of how many of these get detonated worldwide. They have a unique signature (a double explosion), and other identifiable traits that can be seen from satellites..

          Many of these false-flag events around the world can be traced back to these. They have also been used in battle. They just don’t admit it.

          There are formulas easily accessible to calculate how much explosive of what kind would be needed to achieve the destruction seen. In the ones I’ve looked at it is physically impossible.

          Remember, saying something with “great conviction” doesn’t translate into truth. A simple comparison to some of the real truck bombs and the rather superficial damage to neighboring structures, compared to OKC and your example in Norway are pretty telling.

        3. Lophatt
          Dmitri Khalezov says general Lebedev, before he disappeared(officially died in an accident) was spreading rumours about the disappearance of many sovjet mininukes. But K claims that on the contrary the sovjet military kept each one safely even during the tumultous period 1990+ He does say however that the Russians deliberately used one 200m from a fine hotel where CIA agents were stationed (no CIA casulties)and that this was done as a warning after two nuclear attacks in Russia in 1999 and a(perhaps conventional) attack against a russian diplomat in Iraq. He claims that nearly all the 15 mininukes he mentions are of the stealth type produced only by Usa and Israel. Such bombs which are very difficult to make are made of highly enriched plutonium and the radioactive residue is alfa and therefore difficult to detect with conventional geigercounters probing an area just walking through.
          The backpacks story that lophatt is referring to has been spread out by the Us propaganda outlets as a part of their patient buildup of a false view of muslim terrorists having such weapons. They have been working on this evil plot for several decades. Including false confessions of complicity from undercover agents. It seems very unlikely that the mossad would risk doing something like this without approval of part of the Us elites. K believes the same tightly knit group of agents have carried out all the 15 nuclear attacks he specifically mentions.
          About the Oslo bombing. Those holes in the ground dont look like I would have expected if a mininuke had gone off there. But there was room for lots of conventional explosives.

        4. Peter, I wouldn’t disagree with any of that. Dmitri K. knows what he’s talking about. He is also a source of information on several of these devices being used (as well as other types).

          In a sense in order to understand this we have to stop think about this in terms of “countries” and/or their agents. The Mossad reference is accurate but only because “Israel” is chaos central and the primary cause of worldwide events such as these. “Cooperation” is really “following orders”.

          It doesn’t matter much where someone lives. If they need to make use of their taxpayer-funded agents, they will. There really isn’t much in the way of resistance to this.

          “We” have these devices as well. In fact, these are far more difficult to track than the “strategic” variety. Most treaty signatories don’t regard these small devices as “strategic” and, therefore, they don’t report them.

          One of the main hurdles to their use is that a fusion reaction requires a fission reaction to get it started. Recently, they have advertised that they’ve been able to accomplish this using lasers instead.

          Radioactivity is pretty easy to disguise when you’re not looking for it.

  18. All this talk about mini nukes is silly it seems to me, since the effects of the radiation produced would be quite obvious. It is a big distraction, as is the Judy Wood nonsense. There is, however, an interesting book on this subject by John McPhee, called “The Curve of Binding Energy” written in 1973. Anyone ever read this? It tells the story of physicist Ted Taylor who worked on miniaturizing the atomic bomb. At the end of the book Taylor describes the effects that might be expected from a terrorist attack with a “mini nuke”. Taylor presciently points to the World Trade Centers, just opened in 1973, as ideal terrorist targets. He and McPhee visit the buildings to discuss this risk. Here is what Taylor says:” Any explosion inside with a yield of, let’s say, a kiloton would vaporize everything for a few tens of feet. Everything would be destroyed out to and including the wall….the crater radius would be a hundred and fifty feet and it is only a core and a shell. It (the building) would fall, I guess, in the direction in which the bomb was off-centered. IT’S A LITTLE LIKE CUTTING A BIG TREE…Through free air, a kiloton bomb will send a lethal dose of immediate radiation up to half a mile..”..He pressed up against the glass and looked far down to the plaza between the towers. “If you exploded a bomb down there, you could conceivably end up with the World Trade Center’s two buildings leaning against each other and still standing.” This is the first time the meme of the two towers falling into each other appears. Later this would be exploited during the false flag, FBI controlled 93 WTC bombing, which supposedly attempted to do just this, to topple one tower into the other. This event, together with the OKC bombing set the stage for the controlled demolition of both towers during an “attack” by “hijacked” planes. These were likely drones, ushering us into the era of drone warfare; the American war machine on auto pilot.

    1. Christo
      In 1973 it took another decade before such mininukes could be made more stealthy, without any daughter isotopes producing beta or gamma radiation. Only alfa. Therefore normal surveillance of the site of the explosion with a geigercounter held in the air would reveal nothing.
      The elites who are responsible for this nuclear terrorism normally interfere alot at such sites and make sure most of the debry that might contain alfaradiating evidence is removed.
      Moreover all(?) cases involved placing the mininuke in a nearby sewer underground so presumably the best place to gather samples would be UNDER the crater. Since the whole operation was using the decoy of a car bomb, an investigator might never suspect that.
      You may be right in what you say about 1993 but Khalezov has a different angle on that. He thinks the 1993 event was designed to cause alarm about what might happen if nukes were placed higher up in the buildings. And that the already existing plans for nuclear demolition using deep underground nukes would be finalized so in the event of a future attack involving nukes placed further up, there would be a protocol in place for quick action. The unfortunate individuals in charge on 9/11 then would press the red button and kill 3000 people, in order to save millions of New Yorkers. The trigger was the nuclear cruise missile penetrating the pentagon having its detonator switched off. Since those Us authorities who were not insiders to the plot believed planes had crushed into the twin towers they had to suspect that those planes had carried similar nukes, they had to follow protocol and press the red button. Just as planned by the plotters.
      According to K the reason why they didnt use planes but instead went through the compexity of faking videos and witness accounts was that they werent sure they would be able to penetrate the buildings but that most of the plane would just fall down on the street, thus preventing the intended sequence of events leading to the nuclear demolition. And also revealing that the airplanes were drones.

  19. I think I will stick with US mini nuke designer Ted Taylor’s words:
    “Through free air, a one kiloton bomb will send a lethal dose of immediate radiation up to half a mile.” No nuclear bombs could have been used at the WTC towers without everyone in lower Manhattan being subjected to a lethal dose of radiation. Go read John McPhee’s “Curve of binding energy” Here is some more of how Taylor describes the effects of a mini nuke detonating inside one of the WTC towers:
    “Or, up to a thousand feet, you’d be killed by projectiles. People in that building over there would get it in every conceivable way. Gamma rays would get them first. Next comes visible light. Next the neutrons. Then the air shock. Then missiles. Unvaporized concrete would go out of here at the speed of a rifle shot. A steel-and-concrete missile flux would go out one mile and would include in all maybe a tenth the weight of the building, about five thousand tons.” None of this happened on 911. This is all bunk from a shill. Sorry.

    1. Christo
      Now we have wandered a long way from the OKC case.
      Still.
      You are refuting correctly some of the bunk produced by shills or people who are simply wrong. However Dmitri Khalezov himself also refutes those erroneous ideas and even goes a step further and debunks false evidence – such as burned cars intended to look like they were damaged by a nuke and (false?) witnesses claiming to have observed EMP.
      When it comes to the 1993 case however the mininuke probably exploded in a sewer deep down in the building, so all the effects you correctly describe for the case of explosions in the air are eliminated to a large degree.
      Therefore none of Taylors arguments apply in that 1993 case.
      Actually gamma radiation doesnt ever travel far even in air, it is absorbed and heats the air resulting in intense UV. This is the reason why people standing beyond the distance from a nuclear explosion where they would be totally atomized instead get typically 45% burns unlike what is observed with conventional explosives.
      What regards 9/11 Khalezovs explanation is about deep underground nukes but I suppose you were aware of that. When I write deep I mean that there is at least a layer of molten granite separating the rubble and the actual spot where the bomb went off. Normally a safe depth for underground nuclear testing with a 150kt bomb would require some 400m in granite. At wtc the depth was only 77m. So one should expect radioactivity to leak out. K comprehensively discusses the evidence for that. You better read that first if you want to make an argument
      He thinks the workers on wtc were carefully monitored using dosimeters ( called something else officially) and that the rescue workers were circulated(nearly hundred thousand people?) just in time to avoid acute radiation sickness. This however left many with chronic radiation sickness since they were not waring proper protection. If the Us authorities had told the truth just then it might have had a catastrophic effect on world economy. New Yorkers leaving in panic.Therefore it was comparably easy to convince officials to cooperate. And make doctors cooperate to misdiagnose radiation effects for exposure to benzene and asbest.
      Its not the first time the authorities have been secretive about damaging radiation. And not even the most immoral case from the point of view of those not inside to the 9/11 plot. I am not defending it but I realize this was a tough call. It wasnt an experiment.

  20. Correction
    Although it is of no importance for the problem discussed I should admit that my statement about the range of gammarays above is plain wrong. But in the case when a mini nuclear bomb explodes in a sewer, that part of the radiation presumably is mostly contained and the fireball that rises into the air is of a much simpler kind than the type which arises when the bomb goes off above ground.

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